First batch of proper semi-wild cider - help needed please.

[jonnyconga]

Been lurking for years - normally brew beer but tried some cider this year - a little advice needed please.

Got apples from a disused orchard in the autumn, pressed and put into fermenters. Not much sanitisation done so good chance of wild infection but youngs cider yeast added. No campden tablets used. Most of the cider is in a secondary fermenter (with CO2 on top) in the shed and has been for about 3-4 months. The normal fermentation finished in the house, then I moved it outside.

My question is about MIF (Malo-lactic fermentation). I have seen pictures of this and I have this exact thing going on. The cider tastes good dry if a little tart. My Q is shall I leave the cider conditioning for yet more months (as the taste will probably improve) or bottle now and age in the bottle?[/b] Will the MLF make the cider taste better the longer I leave it? I know no one can tell me for sure but some opinion / advice would be appreciated.

.......I also have about 18L of the same cider (but different fermentation without MLF) in a Corny Keg which I have force carbed and that also tastes great (So I have some cider to drink for the time being...!)

 

[oldbloke]

You say it's a bit tart, well MLF will convert some malic acid to lactic acid, with a reduction in perceived tartness, so let it go as far as it can, I reckon.
No way I'm an expert though. Never done a cider with real apples, or done MLF.

 

[graysalchemy]

If you are wanting MLF first of all you need sufficient malic acid which unless you used some tart cookers in the mix, though you said it is tart then potentially you will have enough. Secondly you need the Lactobacillus to infect the cider. There is a fair chance that you will have as you didn't sterilise anything. Finally you need to give it time and plenty of it in the FV. I would think you will have to a leave it at least 6 months. If it is cold then the MLF won't take place. I would leave it a few more months to see if you get any MLF going. :thumb:

 

[jonnyconga]

Thanks for the replies. We put all sorts of apples in there - quite a few cookers so yes perhaps already some malic acid present. The white penicle (i think thats the word for it) re-formed on top after I re-racked to a secondary at about xmas. This was whilst it was in the shed but i live in Cornwall and winter is quite mild so perhaps its going really slowly.
I think I'll leave it in the fermenter until perhaps May (which will be about 7 months) - Summer is always better for cider drinking anyway....

Can I ask - would the process take place quicker (and therefore mellow out malic - lactic acid quicker) if it was warmer (ie inside the house..)? If so I'll need to convince the wife.....!

Re the lactobacillus infection - I imagine it must be very hard to prevent infection as when you are making the juice you are normally using a home made press (in our case made of 2x4, plywood, net curtains and a couple of car jacks) so thats all very hard to sanitise to the extent I would expect for my beer.....

 

[graysalchemy]

I didn't realise you had had a white pelicle. If you have and it doesn't taste of vinegar then you have mostlikely got MLF. Does it smell of farmyards? that is the most obvious confirmation of MLF. With regards to sanitation that is the reason why campden tablets are used as you cannot sanitise presses easily, though a sanitiser in a spray bottle would work.

:thumb:

If you do have MLF keep back a bottle of the pelicle to add to next years batch. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[jonnyconga]

I'm not sure what you mean by farmyard? I've read that term everywhere but it doesn't sound like a good thing.... but apparently it is...????!

Also when bottling the bacteria - is it a case of just bunging it into a bottle and keeping in the fridge / freezer? does it need food? I know yeast are usually quite happy for a few months in a fridge - I imagine bacteria are more hardy?

Thanks for your help graysalchemy

 

[graysalchemy]

It has that farmyard twang? cow **** (not quite). The same bacteria are found in farmyards so some of that aroma is present.

 

[jonnyconga]

It has that farmyard twang? cow **** (not quite). The same bacteria are found in farmyards so some of that aroma is present.

I got round to giving it a niff last night. Can't say it smelt of cow ****......or anything close. Is it the white pellicle that should smell or the cider itself? Cider tasted fine - a little mellower (I guess due to less malic acid..) than the same stuff I put into a keg 4 months ago and am now drinking.