Fish tank heater directly in fv.....pros and cons?

[boost]

Hi,

I'm returning to homebrew after a long absence.

Having moved house and having a substantially larger family than last time I did any homebrew, I have been forced into the garage! :shock:

It gets pretty cold in there so I'm going to need a thermostatically controlled heat source on a budget.

The current method I'm considering is just having the fish tank heater directly in the fv and keeping the fv well wrapped up.

I'm keen to hear if people have had success or failures with this method?

I've done a bit of searching and realise people advocate different methods such as the fv in a water container and the heater in that, but currently I'm more interested to hear peoples actual efforts with the heater in fv method.

Cheers!

 

[dennisking]

Hi and welcome, not had use either method myself I believe the FV in water and heating the water is the more preferred method.

 

[Welsh_Wizard]

Boost - Coming from a saltwater marine side initially (random i know), immersion heaters were always 'wrapped' in a protective cover to stop fish/coral from burning themselves on the unit - how could you possibly protect yeast from touching the glass and burning themselves to smithereens's??? Wouldn't that then leave you with a perpetual cycle of frazzled yeast as they convected around the vessel and touched the glass?? I would hazard a guess that after a few hours of heating, especially if the outside temp' is cool (therefore the heater is constantly heating), your yeast wouldn't last too long !!

What have you got against putting your FV in a metal bath (like you could buy from a garden centre to bath your dog!!) and putting one or two decent heaters in the water then submerging the FV up to the bottle neck/rim ?? Same effect i would have thought but with a considerably more stable and even heat dispersion.

WW

 

[boost]

Thanks for the replies.

I have nothing against the submersion in a water container method, however it will take up more space and I'm also pretty sure I'm going to need to wrap up/insulate the whole conglomeration for it to stand any chance of maintaining anything like a fermenting temperature in the winter months. This is going to be much easier to do if I just need to insulate the fv and not the fv standing in something full of water.

From the little searching I have done this evening I can see that some people have used heaters in the fv with success (So surely the yeast must not get frazzled?), however I have no idea if these were limited triumphs or consistent results, which is why I have posed the question.

 

[reverb]

A fair point above, except that a fishtank heater is designed to only output a small wattage, and would not burn a fish!

I have used a fish tank heater directly in the brew, and continue to do so.

The (minor) problem i have found is be careful how you seal the cable coming in to the f/v. it renders the airlock redundant if air can escape around the cable inlet.

Other things to note is that the temperature gauge on the fish tank heater is not always accurate, although the dead space/tolerance should be fine for brewing. This means you may want to run a test with a bucket of water first, keeping an eye on the water temp if possible by reliable means, to set the heater to the required temperature. if you just try it and see with the brew, and it's not right, you have to pull the heater out of the beer, turn the dial, and then put it back in, which obviously exposes the beer to infection risk.

Insulating the FV is a brilliant idea for a shed at this time of year in any case.

If possible, a water bath WILL be a better, more gentle solution, smoothing the temperature fluctuations (if well insulated) and creating a larger thermal mass, but it is not necessary.

That's my opinion, but i'm happy to be taught by those wiser, more experienced and knowledgable! :

 

[Welsh_Wizard]

Very interesting...

I'm very new to this so happy to learn from anyone. Good points about how do you seal the F/V once the heater is installed??!!..And should you have a crash, how do you access the item to replace it??? Would be an absolute nightmare if the heating element was actually inside the F/V as you would never be able to extract and replace in a hermetically sealed environment to protect the product (if that's the right word..)

I appreciate space is any issue but in all fairness just having a bucket that is the width of the heating element would allow you to create a decent bath, providing you carefully managed the top up of the water from condensation etc etc.. So say your F/V is 30 inches in diameter, you would buy a heating element that is 3 inches in diameter and your bath bucket would be >33.5 inches in diameter..

Also... water heaters that are designed for salt water tanks are extremely powerful. I used to have 'coral farms' in my shed (in Wales so exceptionally cold in winter) and i promise you that it was like walking into a turkish steam bath when going into the shed, irrespective of the outside temp'. Wraps / Insulation etc etc is a moot point - its your electric bill you'll need to consider !!

 

[boost]

Reverb - Thanks. Good to hear from someone who has used this method with some success. I'm aware of the lack of accuracy of the temperature controls on fish tank heaters having kept tropicals myself for a number of years so I plan to do a few experiments to get it dialed in.

Ww- Although I mentioned space, it really is the insulation aspect that concerns me. I assure you that one big plastic bucket with a fish tank heater in isn't going to heat a large, cold garage. My conservatory has a 1500w heater in and in winter that struggles to get to anything like a reasonable temperature. Without insulation all I can see happening is a flat out, really hot fish tank heater trying to heat a brew that will still never get warm. That's how I see it anyway. I may be wrong of course.

As for heater failure. I have had two fail over the years. Both went short and got very hot indeed. This would more than likely destroy the brew anyway so access would be irrelevant.

 

[timbowden]

I have used the fish tank heater directly in the fv for years!never had a problem with it until this summer when i picked up some bacterial infection (not me, my beer!) and changed to standing the fv in a water bath with the heater in the water. The reason being that with the heater in the fv the top had to be slightly open and because of the infection i wanted to be able to close the top and fit an airlock. If i hadn't had the infection i would still be using the heater in the fv.

 

[oldjiver]

I ferment in my COLD shed so I stand the FV in an old plastic drawer I had spare with about 6 inches of water in it I stick the heater down on the bottom with the rubber suckers supplied and cover the lot with a plastic bag and an old coat. I found that when I first tried putting it in the FV it got yeast in the top when the krausen rose up and it was a job to get it out.

 

[graysalchemy]

You will get far less localised heating and heat fluctuations using the water bath method IMHO.

 

[wezil]

A fair point above, except that a fish tank heater is designed to only output a small wattage, and would not burn a fish!

Try 250watts!! And I had a 18" catfish with a big heater burn due to my not having a guard over the heater! (he used to sleep on it)!

 

[Crastney]

I've used an aquarium heater directly inside an FV - but then the brew was only 1 Gal in a glass DJ inside that - so not the same, and it was in my dining room, which was not cold, only cool, anyway.
with heater inside the brew, there is the added task of sterilising the heater, and as mentioned where the power supply goes will need to to sealed so that the airlock still works.
water heaters are generally very efficient, and vary from micro watts up to thousands of watts, depending on the amount of liquid needed to be heated, and the average temperature difference between ambient and brew temps you should be able to find something suitable.
personally I'd recommend the water bath method, for the reasons mentioned.

 

[winelight]

I used the fish tank heater directly in the FV for months and like others, I never had any problems. Worked an absolute treat.

Passed it through a grommet and wrapped the wire in gaffer tape (replaced brew) before pulling it through the grommet and it was airtight enough for the airlock to bubble.

Never had any infections using this method.

I only stopped using it because I have a brewfridge now.

 

[boost]

Good to hear people had more than just fleeting success with it. I'm going to give it a try, with the cable through a grommet in the lid and the fv insulated and see how I get on. I can always swap to a water container method if I don't have any luck.

Now.....what can I brew in time for Christmas :)

 

[evanvine]

Fish tank heaters DO burn the fish!
+ they burn a lot of crud on to themselves!
I kept tropical for over 20 years and a wire or plastic cage was essential.
A water bath (about 4" deep) FV insulated above the water line, heater in the water bath, FV fitted with "thermowell and the whole lot controlled by an STC1000!
Just remember to top up the bath every 3 or 4 days.
The difficulty comes in summer when you have to chill, my FV wont fit in a fridge or freezer.

 

[must_dash]

I use a 200w heater in a large plastic crate. These are the flip top crates you see in clothing stores that the goods come in. There are shallow and deep versions, generally 60cm x 40cm x 40cm, very strong. They stand on concrete blocks so that it is easier to lift them. The FV stands in the crate and water goes to about 3/4 of it height, about 20-25 liters. Any more and the fv floats... The thermal mass stops rapid changes. I have 4 in my cellar which sits at 10C in the winter.
As previously said the control setting is vague... I use an infrared thermometer to measure the water temp in the tub and adjust accordingly. I had thought of linking them together and using a pump to circulate through the whole system to keep a constant temp......

 

[jonnymorris]

If you're going to go to that much effort you may as well get a brew fridge (or four).

I used to use a heater suspended directly in the wort with no issues.

 

[winelight]

If you're going to go to that much effort you may as well get a brew fridge (or four).

Agree with that completely. The water bucket business sounds an absolute pain.

 

[evanvine]

The water bucket business sounds an absolute pain.

I disagree!
The water bath is cheap, simple, easy to use and takes up very little space.

 

[graysalchemy]

I agree with Jim A tub and aquarium heater is the simplest and probably the cheapest solution for heating. You could just use a tub and a heater and fine tune the thermostat in the heater or use it in conjunction with an STC1000 temp controller. However a brew fridge does obviously solve the summer time problems as well but will require a temp controller and a 50-100w tube heater. :thumb: :thumb: