Novice water advice!

[Nelson81]

Hi folks, after a few years out of the game I've decided I'm fed up with overpriced supermarket nonsense, and want to dive head first into all grain again! I had inconsistent results a few years back (until my klarstein AIO died and put me off brewing for a while!), but am now determined to give my all to this rewarding hobby and provide some quality party fuel for garden guest's this summer!!

Now starting with water, its a subject that has always confused me...I know I have soft water North Devon, but if anyone could briefly run their eyes over the report from southwest water, and perhaps give me an idea as to what styles would suit my water, or what water modifications may or may not be required? Any help would be appreciated! Some details:

Hardness Information: Total Hardness level of 15 mg/l Ca

• 38 parts per million
• 3 Clarke degrees
• 4 French degrees
• 2 German degrees

Mandatory European Standards
Parameter	TUnit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
12-Dichloroethane	ug/l	3	12		10.20	0.20	0.20
Antimony	ug/l	5	12	0	0.10	0.10	0.10
Arsenic	ug/	10	12		10.62	0.62	0.62
Benzene	ug/l	1	12		10.20	0.20	0.20
Benzo(a) Pyrene	ng/l	10	11		0.50	0.50	0.50
Bromate	ug/l	10	9		0.70	1.37	1.81
Cadmium	ug/l	5	12	0	0.06	0.06	0.06
Chromium	ug/l	50	12		|0.80	0.80	0.80
Copper	mgl	2	10		10.0019	0.01	0.0173
E.coli	no/100ml		744
Enterococci	MPN/100ml	0	12	8.30		0.25
Fluoride	mg/l	1.5	48		0.10	0.10	0.10
Lead	ug/l	아	10		|0.09	10.10	0.1330
Nickel	ug/l	20	10		| 3.30	3.54	5.71
Nitrate as NO3	mg/l	50	12		|1.60	2.87	3.51
Nitrite as NO2	mg/	0.5	12		0.0170	0.02	0.0170
Selenium	ug/l		12		1.20	1.20	1.20
Total Pesticides	|ug/l	0.5	53				0.1230
Total THM	ug/l	100	|12		38.70	50.17	66
Total Trichlorethene + Tetrachloroethene	ug/l	아	12

Mandatory National Standards
Parameter	Unit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
Aluminium	ug/l	|200	54	0	6.42	22.39	197
Colour as Pt/Co	Img/	20	57			2

Mandatory National Standards

Parameter	Unit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
Iron	ug/l	200	54		7.60	11.12	76.80
Manganese	ug/l	50	54	0	0.35	1.22	2.64
Odour (Quantitative)	DN		54			0
Sodium	mg/l	200	12		11	15.58	18
Taste (Quantitative)	DN	0	54	0		0	0
Tetrachloromethane	ug/l	3	12		0.20	0.20	0.20
Turbidity	INTU	4	54		0.07	0.11	0.43

Indicator Parameters

Parameter	Unit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
Ammonium as NH4	mg/	0.5	53		0.08	0.08	0.08
C. perfringens	no/100ml		412
Chloride	mg/l	250	48		10	19.75	33
Coliform	no/100ml		744		0
Conductivity at 20 'C	uS/cm	2500	410		100	149.89	359
pH	pH units	6.5 to 9.5 54			17.20	7.69	8
Sulphate	mg/l	250	48	0	5.30	|15.54	24.50
Total Organic Carbon	mg/l		48		10.44	|1.10	|2.03
TVC at 22 for 3 days	no/ml		186		0	3.05	183
TVC at 37 for 2 days	no/ml		186		0	3.09	|111
	Other Parameters not covered by the Regulations
Parameter Unit PCV Number % Exceeding Min Mean Max of PCV Samples Taken in Period
Chlorine Free (On Site)	mg/l		186		10.01	0.30	0.80
Chlorine Total (On Site)	mg/l		186		10.15	10.38	10.98
Hardness Total as Ca	mg/l		79		9.20	|16.42	|31.10
Phosphorus	ug/l		41		567	|762.78	935

 

[Twostage]

The screenshots are too low quality to read (at least with my eyes). Maybe a link to the report would be better ?

 

[Nelson81]

The screenshots are too low quality to read (at least with my eyes). Maybe a link to the report would be better ?

Many thanks for the reply, oh I see, it seems the screenshots are compressed when uploaded....I have just edited original post and copied and pasted all the data within the PDF (cannot provide a link as its just a downloadable pdf of the report).. I hope this helps! There seems to be plenty of data missing that all the online water calculators require...

 

[jof]

Alternatively, you could just look at what beer styles suit soft water profiles.
Then get your brewing process working with those before you add water chemistry to the mix.

 

[Deadhead]

Don't know if you have read through this thread, or at least the first few posts, but it's incredibly helpful with some DIY testing -
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ore-advanced-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/

 

[Twostage]

Most of the key things are there, magnesium is missing but I'm sure you can extrapolate that from another of the minerals. It's either 4 times less or 4 times more than something. I'll Google.

 

[Nelson81]

Don't know if you have read through this thread, or at least the first few posts, but it's incredibly helpful with some DIY testing -
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ore-advanced-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/

admittedly I really should have read and researched this thread more before posting… I just become a little jaded with the science and it all too quickly becomes ‘duff beer and donuts’ to me

 

[Deadhead]

admittedly I really should have read and researched this thread more before posting… I just become a little jaded with the science and it all too quickly becomes ‘duff beer and donuts’ to me

Awww, the thread is really helpful in breaking it down if you are bamboozled by the science. Good luck!

 

[jof]

And even if you do understand the science, you may decide that you don't want a water profile obsession to ruin your enjoyment of your brewing hobby.

Disclaimer: I'm on the North Downs hard water area, so I look to Kent/Sussex or London style beers. I don't attempt to copy softwater regional styles (eg Burton on Trent). The only water treatment I use is a pinch of metabisulphate to remove chlorine.

 

[Nelson81]

Thanks all, I currently have a Weissbier and a pseudo pilsner (fermenting warm using kveik lutra) on the go, so hopefully the soft water won’t be detrimental to these styles…

 

[peebee]

This'll make a few folk groan!

Haven't tried my "Defuddler" out for months. I've forgotten how to use it! That's a tick against "not intuitive", but while I read the instructions you can have these results:

You really are only truly interested in those six elements. Forget all that "soft water this", "hard water that" momentously confusing twaddle. Note three boxes are grey ... the maximum this spreadsheet creates. A good indication the information offered is c***. Some Water Companies (operating in UK) are getting better, but you're not alone with a c*** one.

You've got a Magnesium figure! But only because I've guessed it! 10% of the Calcium figure, and the figure had to be derived from their published "total hardness" figure (total hardness includes both calcium and magnesium, but only reports as Calcium, or "as CaCO3" ... told you "hardness" is momentously confusing twaddle).

The other grey box is "Bicarbonate". It stands in as your Alkalinity figure. It has worked out extreamly low. But it's all balancing. I have added in NO3 figures and "phosphates" derived from the published "phosphorus" figure (I'm afraid phosphate is mainly due to a legacy of pollution) to help balancing and it's what that 5.2ppm "miscellaneous" is about.

A copy of my spreadsheet is included below (signature). It includes an educational "readme".

By the way: Don't look for Carbonate (or CaCO3) in your water. There isn't any!

 

[Sadfield]

Calcium
Calcium is extremely important for brewing water. It offers very little in the way of flavour contribution, but it is vital for:

• Increasing mash acidity (if you brew with very alkaline water)
• Assisting with enzyme activity
• Extracting hop bitterness
• Reducing haze
• Decreasing wort colour.

Calcium is usually added as calcium sulphate (gypsum) or calcium chloride. Calcium carbonate (chalk) used to be the most common addition. This is no longer the case as calcium carbonate is not very soluble in water and has little effect in comparison to gypsum and calcium chloride

For a really simple solution. The most important issue with your water is a deficit of Calcium. As a start, I'd recommend adding 5g of Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum) to the start of the boil for hoppy beers, or 5g of Calcium Chloride for malty beers. Whilst you get embroiled in spreadsheets, calculators and long threads.

 

[Nelson81]

This'll make a few folk groan!

Haven't tried my "Defuddler" out for months. I've forgotten how to use it! That's a tick against "not intuitive", but while I read the instructions you can have these results:

View attachment 96822

You really are only truly interested in those six elements. Forget all that "soft water this", "hard water that" momentously confusing twaddle. Note three boxes are grey ... the maximum this spreadsheet creates. A good indication the information offered is c***. Some Water Companies (operating in UK) are getting better, but you're not alone with a c*** one.

You've got a Magnesium figure! But only because I've guessed it! 10% of the Calcium figure, and the figure had to be derived from their published "total hardness" figure (total hardness includes both calcium and magnesium, but only reports as Calcium, or "as CaCO3" ... told you "hardness" is momentously confusing twaddle).

The other grey box is "Bicarbonate". It stands in as your Alkalinity figure. It has worked out extreamly low. But it's all balancing. I have added in NO3 figures and "phosphates" derived from the published "phosphorus" figure (I'm afraid phosphate is mainly due to a legacy of pollution) to help balancing and it's what that 5.2ppm "miscellaneous" is about.

A copy of my spreadsheet is included below (signature). It includes an educational "readme".

By the way: Don't look for Carbonate (or CaCO3) in your water. There isn't any!

My word, wowzers, thankyou ever so much for this info, it’s very much appreciated!!! Hopefully this will help me accurately work out any water additions for various styles…

Brilliant, thankyou…

 

[Nelson81]

For a really simple solution. The most important issue with your water is a deficit of Calcium. As a start, I'd recommend adding 5g of Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum) to the start of the boil for hoppy beers, or 5g of Calcium Chloride for malty beers. Whilst you get embroiled in spreadsheets, calculators and long threads.

Perfect, thanks for this… I shall be ordering the additions asap! Would these 5G quantities be based on a standard 23L batch?

 

[Sadfield]

Perfect, thanks for this… I shall be ordering the additions asap! Would these 5G quantities be based on a standard 23L batch?

Yes.

 

[JockyBrewer]

For a really simple solution. The most important issue with your water is a deficit of Calcium. As a start, I'd recommend adding 5g of Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum) to the start of the boil for hoppy beers, or 5g of Calcium Chloride for malty beers. Whilst you get embroiled in spreadsheets, calculators and long threads.

I was going to write almost the same thing, although I'd add half to the mash and half to the boil as you want enough calcium in the mash to promote conversion. This will service anything from pale to brown beers well for this water.

Dark beers like porter and stout will be ok, but I would recommend leaving out the dark crystal and roast malts from the main mash, and add them when you sparge.

 

[peebee]

My word, wowzers, thankyou ever so much for this info, it’s very much appreciated!!! Hopefully this will help me accurately work out any water additions for various styles…

Brilliant, thankyou…

Thank you! For such a glowing appreciation of my post!

But you've also instilled a "duty-of-care" in me! I did say the information provided was "c**p" (not blaming you, a Water Company provided the information), and expressed my concern for the apparent very low level of "alkalinity" (don't worry what that might mean, it might be quite normal in that area ... N. Devon ... Exmoor?).

For me to be better sure of the information I'm translating, could you provide links to your water authority and a postcode (not yours, don't give away personal identifying information on the Internet ... a local commercial postcode of a shop, garage, post office, etc. on the same water supply as you)?


Note: What I'm doing for you is entirely different to @Sadfield. I'm only trying to establish the "base water" you want to modify, not suggest the modifications.

And your water has very little in it, less even than mine, and this puts you within about 5% of the UK population. Careful what advice you take from the other 95%, they may not make that distinction.

 

[Sadfield]

I was going to write almost the same thing, although I'd add half to the mash and half to the boil as you want enough calcium in the mash to promote conversion. This will service anything from pale to brown beers well for this water.

Sensible. I was avoiding adding to the mash to side step certain responses. It didn't work.

 

[Nelson81]

Thank you! For such a glowing appreciation of my post!

But you've also instilled a "duty-of-care" in me! I did say the information provided was "c**p" (not blaming you, a Water Company provided the information), and expressed my concern for the apparent very low level of "alkalinity" (don't worry what that might mean, it might be quite normal in that area ... N. Devon ... Exmoor?).

For me to be better sure of the information I'm translating, could you provide links to your water authority and a postcode (not yours, don't give away personal identifying information on the Internet ... a local commercial postcode of a shop, garage, post office, etc. on the same water supply as you)?


Note: What I'm doing for you is entirely different to @Sadfield. I'm only trying to establish the "base water" you want to modify, not suggest the modifications.

And your water has very little in it, less even than mine, and this puts you within about 5% of the UK population. Careful what advice you take from the other 95%, they may not make that distinction.

Roger that! Here is a link to the southwest water homepage, there is a a search bar halfway down where you can enter a postcode and check your water.. just use EX31 1LQ (car dealership across the road)..


https://www.southwestwater.co.uk/

 

[Davegase]

Hi folks, after a few years out of the game I've decided I'm fed up with overpriced supermarket nonsense, and want to dive head first into all grain again! I had inconsistent results a few years back (until my klarstein AIO died and put me off brewing for a while!), but am now determined to give my all to this rewarding hobby and provide some quality party fuel for garden guest's this summer!!

Now starting with water, its a subject that has always confused me...I know I have soft water North Devon, but if anyone could briefly run their eyes over the report from southwest water, and perhaps give me an idea as to what styles would suit my water, or what water modifications may or may not be required? Any help would be appreciated! Some details:

Hardness Information: Total Hardness level of 15 mg/l Ca

• 38 parts per million
• 3 Clarke degrees
• 4 French degrees
• 2 German degrees

Mandatory European Standards
Parameter	TUnit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
12-Dichloroethane	ug/l	3	12		10.20	0.20	0.20
Antimony	ug/l	5	12	0	0.10	0.10	0.10
Arsenic	ug/	10	12		10.62	0.62	0.62
Benzene	ug/l	1	12		10.20	0.20	0.20
Benzo(a) Pyrene	ng/l	10	11		0.50	0.50	0.50
Bromate	ug/l	10	9		0.70	1.37	1.81
Cadmium	ug/l	5	12	0	0.06	0.06	0.06
Chromium	ug/l	50	12		|0.80	0.80	0.80
Copper	mgl	2	10		10.0019	0.01	0.0173
E.coli	no/100ml		744
Enterococci	MPN/100ml	0	12	8.30		0.25
Fluoride	mg/l	1.5	48		0.10	0.10	0.10
Lead	ug/l	아	10		|0.09	10.10	0.1330
Nickel	ug/l	20	10		| 3.30	3.54	5.71
Nitrate as NO3	mg/l	50	12		|1.60	2.87	3.51
Nitrite as NO2	mg/	0.5	12		0.0170	0.02	0.0170
Selenium	ug/l		12		1.20	1.20	1.20
Total Pesticides	|ug/l	0.5	53				0.1230
Total THM	ug/l	100	|12		38.70	50.17	66
Total Trichlorethene + Tetrachloroethene	ug/l	아	12

Mandatory National Standards
Parameter	Unit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
Aluminium	ug/l	|200	54	0	6.42	22.39	197
Colour as Pt/Co	Img/	20	57			2

Mandatory National Standards

Parameter	Unit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
Iron	ug/l	200	54		7.60	11.12	76.80
Manganese	ug/l	50	54	0	0.35	1.22	2.64
Odour (Quantitative)	DN		54			0
Sodium	mg/l	200	12		11	15.58	18
Taste (Quantitative)	DN	0	54	0		0	0
Tetrachloromethane	ug/l	3	12		0.20	0.20	0.20
Turbidity	INTU	4	54		0.07	0.11	0.43

Indicator Parameters

Parameter	Unit	PCV	Number of Samples Taken in Period	% Exceeding Min PCV		Mean	Max
Ammonium as NH4	mg/	0.5	53		0.08	0.08	0.08
C. perfringens	no/100ml		412
Chloride	mg/l	250	48		10	19.75	33
Coliform	no/100ml		744		0
Conductivity at 20 'C	uS/cm	2500	410		100	149.89	359
pH	pH units	6.5 to 9.5 54			17.20	7.69	8
Sulphate	mg/l	250	48	0	5.30	|15.54	24.50
Total Organic Carbon	mg/l		48		10.44	|1.10	|2.03
TVC at 22 for 3 days	no/ml		186		0	3.05	183
TVC at 37 for 2 days	no/ml		186		0	3.09	|111
	Other Parameters not covered by the Regulations
Parameter Unit PCV Number % Exceeding Min Mean Max of PCV Samples Taken in Period
Chlorine Free (On Site)	mg/l		186		10.01	0.30	0.80
Chlorine Total (On Site)	mg/l		186		10.15	10.38	10.98
Hardness Total as Ca	mg/l		79		9.20	|16.42	|31.10
Phosphorus	ug/l		41		567	|762.78	935

I would recommend sending a sample of your own tap water for analysis to Murphy and son.
Murphyandson.co.uk
Analysis focuses on what is important for Beer making.
(LAB-FWA £29.80 plus vat.) Is what you need.
Analysis includes a complete report with recommendations for water additions for various styles of beer.
Note that tap water can change at various times in the year.
If you can get Spotless water it will be consistent throughout the year.
I had two samples analyzed in January one was my tap water, the other was a sample of "Spotless water" which is fairly widely available around the country although the closest spotless water station to you at the moment would probably be Exeter.