- Joined
- Oct 23, 2013
- Messages
- 3,555
- Reaction score
- 1,714
Look on Maltmiller for DWB. I can email you some docs if you dm me.
Novice water advice!
- Thread starter Nelson81
- Start date
Help Support The Homebrew Forum:
peebee
Out of Control
Thank you!
Goor! I'm blaming everyone but myself: "Hardness Total as Ca" is in the reports, exactly as you've transcribed it, but I've used "as CaCO3" which needed the "as Ca" figure multiplied by 2.5. That'll make for a more reasonable "alkalinity", give me a few moments to put it together.
(Okay, damage limitation, start lying through me teeth): That was an illustration of how this old fashioned "Hardness" nonsense can get you muddled up! "As Ca" or "as CaCO3" ... that's bad enough, but remembering it also contains your Magnesium figure masquerading as "Calcium" just takes the biscuit.
Back soon ...
Looks like I'm 1of the lucky 1s as my water company has a brewers section on their report, just done my first water treatment to balance the sulphate to calcium chloride ratio, mine was way off, I was wondering why my porters would come out with a thin mouth feel and there was a bitter note at the he back end of my beers(was blaming this on kit and brewing short)
Suppose I'll find out for sure in 3-4weeks
Suppose I'll find out for sure in 3-4weeks
peebee
Out of Control
That's better!
We've got "alkalinity", but three of the required parameters are still grey - not directly reported but manufactured from the information available. So, Magnesium is still "guessed" as 10% of the Calcium figure (Looks odd? That's because Magnesium is lighter than the Calcium it was pretending to be!).
The figures drift about a lot in the report, although the amounts of variation are tiny because the values used (means) are all tiny. I'll come back with the implications later ...
Nelson81
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2020
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 21
Thanks again peebee, I shall adjust my brewfather water profile accordingly!
Last edited:
On a whim I've just checked the water quality report for my area and they have a brewer's section showing the relevant info. Thumbs up to Northumbrian water 
Yep, North. Water for me too, agree v helpful reportOn a whim I've just checked the water quality report for my area and they have a brewer's section showing the relevant info. Thumbs up to Northumbrian water
Mine don't have a specific brewer's section, but they have started including Alkalinity, Magnesium, and TDS in the newest report. Possibly after me bothering their water quality scientist for this info every year.
peebee
Out of Control
I don't think it was just you. It takes a bulldozer to shift some of these multi-national criminal syndicates responsible for most of our drinking water (after a misguided UK government simply handed over the reigns to them ... after ensuring they be paid fat wodges of the UK taxpayers' cash for the "service").
Sorry to bust up the "love" being shown for their services by others on this forum, but I think the country was taught many years ago that appeasement doesn't work.
The Rivers Trust - State of Our Rivers
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2013
- Messages
- 3,555
- Reaction score
- 1,714
Me neither
Extract (pun maybe intended)...
peebee
Out of Control
And I haven't yet. So I'll put that right ...
Values significantly swinging about in a report can be an indication of the water company switching the water source, but in this case the variation is too small (because the mean value is so small, it just looks a lot "proportionally"). So, the first five values as "means" are fine and the amount of variation will be swamped by the user's own "profile additions".
The sixth value "bicarbonate" (used as your "alkalinity" figure) is a bit trickier. I have a very similar tap water profile (very low dissolved solids) and have trouble hitting the right mash pH. Ironically, it's easier making adjustments for darker beers than light "pale ales" (the common, intuitive, idea is the other way around for very "soft" waters). Fortunately, being a couple of pH points short of "ideal" for paler beer is far less to be concerned about than a couple of pH points short of "ideal" for dark beers.
Conclusion: Use the "mean" value for "bicarbonate" ("Alkalinity" in this case) and get used to pH being a bit variable for light beers (I've mashed at pH5.0 when aiming for 5.3 before now, with no noticeable issues).
I'm working on improving predictions. Word of warning: The popular way of checking "alkalinity" (for pH prediction) is using the "Salifert KH/Alk" test kit: It was always very difficult to use with "soft" (very low Alkalinity) water, but since they changed the kit a couple of years ago it became completely unreliable! I don't know if they've changed it again recently, but I doubt it.
peebee
Out of Control
IGNORE that "Total Hardness" section! And that "Calcium Carbonate" twaddle in the next section. But the remaining six items is all you need!
There isn't any "Calcium Carbonate" in your water. None! If you were to have very alkaline water (>pH8.0), and I can tell you haven't, you might be able to detect some carbonate (CO3), but nothing of consequence to brewing.
You do not need "HARDNESS"!
Some people can use hardness to satisfactory effect. But it's an advanced, and dying, art!
I spend a lot of time on the "sister" forum now "www.homebrewtalk.com": It's American, and quite refreshing in that you see very little "hardness" in discussions. It's all bicarbonate and alkalinity ... real, physical values, not this pretend, arcane, "hardness" stuff!
I use spotless these days. As I said I checked it on a whim. Must say, though, the profile looks ok. Might give it a go at some point using it as it is (apart from putting in the dechlorination stuff, what is it again ? Metabisulphate ?).IGNORE that "Total Hardness" section! And that "Calcium Carbonate" twaddle in the next section. But the remaining six items is all you need!
There isn't any "Calcium Carbonate" in your water. None! If you were to have very alkaline water (>pH8.0), and I can tell you haven't, you might be able to detect some carbonate (CO3), but nothing of consequence to brewing.
You do not need "HARDNESS"!
Some people can use hardness to satisfactory effect. But it's an advanced, and dying, art!
I spend a lot of time on the "sister" forum now "www.homebrewtalk.com": It's American, and quite refreshing in that you see very little "hardness" in discussions. It's all bicarbonate and alkalinity ... real, physical values, not this pretend, arcane, "hardness" stuff!
Sodium metabisulfite or potassium metabisulfite or half a crushed Camden tablet to 25 litres , don't forget ! even with a water report domestic supply does vary at times.
Sadfield
Landlord.
Don't lose sight of the fact that water is an ingredient that goes into making your beer taste like your beer.
Definitely worth a watch for anyone who wants to learn a bit more about water and treatment.
Take note of the bit at the end about how water can change overnight
Take note of the bit at the end about how water can change overnight
peebee
Out of Control
Good on you for considering going back to tap water. Your report looks pretty good. Nothing in excess, nothing desperately short (mmm ... "Calcium" is somewhat short). The tap water should be most effective at meeting your requirements.
I know. I feel I've got a phobia against using tap water so I'm going to try it at some point. Spotless will remain my go to.
That's it. I think I've got some campden tablets somewhere from when I first started years ago. Do they go off ?
