Pressure brewing

[canairyman]

ok so I have now tried 3 beer kits with my king keg 30ltr chubby and each one has turned out the same, quick fermentation and then hit a stumbling block as either me putting in dry hops in or doing something wrong but all 3 beers came out with bearly any taste whatsoever? Ideas as to what I’m doing wrong? I’m currently doing a coopers Irish stout kit (day 2 of primary fermentation). Once I’ve reached the final SG what are my best options?
I wasn’t going to bottle this but simply connect up to either a party tap or get the king keg connected to a tap in the door of my beer fridge

 

[canairyman]

ok so I have now tried 3 beer kits with my king keg 30ltr chubby and each one has turned out the same, quick fermentation and then hit a stumbling block as either me putting in dry hops in or doing something wrong but all 3 beers came out with bearly any taste whatsoever? Ideas as to what I’m doing wrong? I’m currently doing a coopers Irish stout kit (day 2 of primary fermentation). Once I’ve reached the final SG what are my best options?
I wasn’t going to bottle this but simply connect up to either a party tap or get the king keg connected to a tap in the door of my beer fridge

P.s I’ve also been keeping my spundy that’s fitted to the barrel on aprox 10psi

 

[MashBag]

I don't pressure ferment. But from my understanding this is what I would expect from it.

Pressure fermentation is quick and delivers neutral flavours.

You are using pressure fermentation in the wrong place. These flavourful types of brews don't need it. Just ferment it normally.

Others will be along soon, to comment.

 

[MickDundee]

I don't pressure ferment. But from my understanding this is what I would expect from it.

Pressure fermentation is quick and delivers neutral flavours.

You are using pressure fermentation in the wrong place. These flavourful types of brews don't need it. Just ferment it normally.

Others will be along soon, to comment.

Yep, I’m here to correct you

Pressure fermenting suppresses yeast esters, but the OP is referring to dry hopping kits and, if anything, pressure fermenting should retain hop flavour/aroma better than “standard” fermenting. It should only give a bland/neutral beer if he’s using an estery yeast and fermenting under pressure.

OP - how are you bottling from it? I’ve only ever pressure fermented in conjunction with kegging and closed transfers. Also, you mention adding a tap instead of bottling but haven’t mentioned a gas setup, only your spunding valve. You’ll need gas and a regulator to keep the pressure in the fermenter in order to serve from it.

 

[MashBag]

Dunno but I would have thought dry hops are only part of the flavour profile?

 

[canairyman]

I don't pressure ferment. But from my understanding this is what I would expect from it.

Pressure fermentation is quick and delivers neutral flavours.

You are using pressure fermentation in the wrong place. These flavourful types of brews don't need it. Just ferment it normally.

Others will be along soon, to comment.

Ok thanks but I went to pressure fermenting because I was lead to believe the opposite of what you have said as it keeps it’s own co2 and flavours in and doesn’t let oxygen in which spoils the brew, plus if I’m honest I’ve never been that happy with any of my normal fermenting (2-3 years in)

 

[MashBag]

I am happy to be wrong, l defo am of the edge of my knowledge.

 

[canairyman]

I am happy to be wrong, l defo am of the edge of my knowledge.

I do always appreciate any comments/help/feedback so thank you

 

[MashBag]

if I’m honest I’ve never been that happy with any of my normal fermenting (2-3 years in)

Couple of thoughts from there. What didn't you like? Or did not get?

And... Do you treat your water... It made great difference for me.

If I can be honest, For me co2, keeping flavours in and oxygen spoilage aren't necessarily drivers for pressure fermentation. But different strokes for different folks.

 

[canairyman]

Couple of thoughts from there. What didn't you like? Or did not get?

And... Do you treat your water... It made great difference for me.

If I can be honest, For me co2, keeping flavours in and oxygen spoilage aren't necessarily drivers for pressure fermentation. But different strokes for different folks.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

I've never presdure fermented so I cant comment on the orocess. But could the ingredients be at fault? What sort of kits were they - maybe they were rubbish? Or out of date?

As mashbag said, have you treated your water? If everything is turning out tasteless, that could be an issue. Where I used to live (in Cumbria) I barely needed to treat my water, but when I moved here (to Northumberland) my first couple of brews were disappointing until I got a water report and made adjustments.

 

[MashBag]

Canairyman,
Just read this again.

Lets get back to basics. Let's treat your question like this.

doing something wrong but all 3 beers came out with bearly any taste whatsoever?

The replies then become the regular...

What beer kits?
What yeast?
What temps did you ferment at?

Which will help us sort it out for you.

 

[Sadfield]

Whilst the answer to brewing issues are rarely singular, I'd be looking at yeast and fermentation first. A quote from the Harvey's Brewery website.

"Our yeast contributes to 50% of the final flavour of our beer, which highlights how important it is that we keep our unique strain"

Not reducing esters by pressure fermenting would be my first bit of advice.

What yeast? Is a valid question. IF it's the kit yeast or something like Nottingham, I'd look to supplement that with something with more esters.

Other questions would be.

How much yeast are you pitching?

What beers are you comparing your brews against? What do your brews lack?

 

[stripeyjoe]

I normally ferment under zero pressure (spunding valve wide open) for the first few days and let the pressure build up to around 5psi. When I dry hop I'll release that pressure, open my All Rounder and chuck the hops in and then purge with CO2 and add pressure to about 10-12psi so the beer starts to carbonate when i cold crash a few days later.

If you've never been happy with any of your fermentations prior to getting your pressure fermenter I'd look to other areas of your process or if you are expecting too much from a can of malt extract and a few hops. Do you do the kits to instruction or do you add more sugar/dme to boost the ABV? Have you tried a more 'premium' kit that has a few fans, lots of people mention the Munton Jack ones for hazy/hoppy beers, maybe find someone who has fermented the same kit and do a bottle swap?

 

[Davegase]

I normally ferment under zero pressure (spunding valve wide open) for the first few days and let the pressure build up to around 5psi. When I dry hop I'll release that pressure, open my All Rounder and chuck the hops in and then purge with CO2 and add pressure to about 10-12psi so the beer starts to carbonate when i cold crash a few days later.

If you've never been happy with any of your fermentations prior to getting your pressure fermenter I'd look to other areas of your process or if you are expecting too much from a can of malt extract and a few hops. Do you do the kits to instruction or do you add more sugar/dme to boost the ABV? Have you tried a more 'premium' kit that has a few fans, lots of people mention the Munton Jack ones for hazy/hoppy beers, maybe find someone who has fermented the same kit and do a bottle swap?

Have you tried a more 'premium' kit that has a few fans, lots of people mention the Munton Jack ones for hazy/hoppy beers,

I think you meant to say Mangrove jacks craft series.

 

[stripeyjoe]

I think you meant to say Mangrove jacks craft series.

Yep! Was typing this before my morning coffee... Personally not familiar with kits, only did a couple at the start of my HB hobby and then moved to all grain.

 

[Wynne]

I pressure ferment and I follow the same method as @stripeyjoe i.e. I only allow the pressure to build up once the fermentation is well established (has been bubbling strongly for 24-48 hours). It is during this initial phase of fermentation that yeast develop most of the flavour compounds.

When brewing a malt extract based kit you can forget about water treatment as the trace minerals required are already in the malt extract. My suggestions are:

1. Start by looking at the kit you are using. Preferably use a kit that you have tried and liked or one that gets good reviews for your preferred style of beer e.g. Woodforde’s Wherry for a bitter.
Most of us started with kits - I started with Love Brewing’s Beerworks part grain kits.

2. Keep you fermenter at the right temperature. The tempefature range should be set out in the kit instructions. Yeast don't respond well to temperature fluctuations and can produce off-flavours if the temperature is too hot and can become dormant and slow down or stop fermenting if the temperature is too cold. Try to put your fermenter somewhere the temperature is in the required range and remains fairly constant day and night.

3. Take a sample and measure and record the specific gravity of the batch just before adding the yeast and when you think fermentation has finished. Compare the final specific gravity to what the kit instructions says it should be so you know when fermention has finished.

Good luck and please let us know how you get on!

 

[Omega]

I only recently started brewing and immediately started with pressure fermenting. These are the kits I made and dates I put them to brew:
1. 6/11/2023 Muntons Gold IPA , yeast GV12 - WIP
2. 5/11/2023 Pinter Public House IPA, Yeast E491 - WIP
3. 10/10/2023 Mangrove Jacks Craft Series Beer Kit - Red IPA with Dry hops
4. 30/9/2023 Muntons Flagship Hazy Zesty Fruity IPA
5. 27/9/2023 Bourne IPA 20 litres, 29/9/2023 1.015 @10:52AM, 5.24% alcohol content, very quick fermentation
6. 22/8/2023 Muntons Flagship Beer Kit - West Coast IPA, 6/9/23 1004 bottled as gravity is too low
7. 22/8/2023 Coopers European Lager, started 16/8/2023, bottled 25/8/2023
All, expect one, had hops already in the wort, but the one with dry hops, I released the pressure, opened the opening on Apollo Unitank 30 Litres made for pressure release valve, put the hops, closed and pressurised back. If you do not have such an opening, for example, you brew in a keg, then I would release the pressure, open it as normal, add hops, close and then pressurise back
I would say that Mangrove Jacks Red IPA with Dry hops worked out quite bitter because of hops, but it is because I collected too much ale. Nearly everyone noted that it was at least on par with independent pubs, except excess bitterness because of hops (though some especially liked the bitterness)

 

[Davegase]

I only recently started brewing and immediately started with pressure fermenting. These are the kits I made and dates I put them to brew:
1. 6/11/2023 Muntons Gold IPA , yeast GV12 - WIP
2. 5/11/2023 Pinter Public House IPA, Yeast E491 - WIP
3. 10/10/2023 Mangrove Jacks Craft Series Beer Kit - Red IPA with Dry hops
4. 30/9/2023 Muntons Flagship Hazy Zesty Fruity IPA
5. 27/9/2023 Bourne IPA 20 litres, 29/9/2023 1.015 @10:52AM, 5.24% alcohol content, very quick fermentation
6. 22/8/2023 Muntons Flagship Beer Kit - West Coast IPA, 6/9/23 1004 bottled as gravity is too low
7. 22/8/2023 Coopers European Lager, started 16/8/2023, bottled 25/8/2023
All, expect one, had hops already in the wort, but the one with dry hops, I released the pressure, opened the opening on Apollo Unitank 30 Litres made for pressure release valve, put the hops, closed and pressurised back. If you do not have such an opening, for example, you brew in a keg, then I would release the pressure, open it as normal, add hops, close and then pressurise back
I would say that Mangrove Jacks Red IPA with Dry hops worked out quite bitter because of hops, but it is because I collected too much ale. Nearly everyone noted that it was at least on par with independent pubs, except excess bitterness because of hops (though some especially liked the bitterness)

You've done well to get through that many in such a short space of time

 

[Wynne]

I only recently started brewing and immediately started with pressure fermenting. These are the kits I made and dates I put them to brew:
1. 6/11/2023 Muntons Gold IPA , yeast GV12 - WIP
2. 5/11/2023 Pinter Public House IPA, Yeast E491 - WIP
3. 10/10/2023 Mangrove Jacks Craft Series Beer Kit - Red IPA with Dry hops
4. 30/9/2023 Muntons Flagship Hazy Zesty Fruity IPA
5. 27/9/2023 Bourne IPA 20 litres, 29/9/2023 1.015 @10:52AM, 5.24% alcohol content, very quick fermentation
6. 22/8/2023 Muntons Flagship Beer Kit - West Coast IPA, 6/9/23 1004 bottled as gravity is too low
7. 22/8/2023 Coopers European Lager, started 16/8/2023, bottled 25/8/2023
All, expect one, had hops already in the wort, but the one with dry hops, I released the pressure, opened the opening on Apollo Unitank 30 Litres made for pressure release valve, put the hops, closed and pressurised back. If you do not have such an opening, for example, you brew in a keg, then I would release the pressure, open it as normal, add hops, close and then pressurise back
I would say that Mangrove Jacks Red IPA with Dry hops worked out quite bitter because of hops, but it is because I collected too much ale. Nearly everyone noted that it was at least on par with independent pubs, except excess bitterness because of hops (though some especially liked the bitterness)

Respect!