Question for regular kit brewers

[iian]

Have very much enjoyed experimenting with the various beer kits available and on the whole have been impressed with the results apart from the fact, out of about a dozen different brews i reckon 3 or 4 have had off tastes and ended up down the sink.

Always a slight tcp taste.

Have tried everything suggested on here such as using camden tablets to treat my water, and taking great care to sterilise and rinse my equipment carefully.

Just wondered if the odd bad brew is to be expected or are there kit brewers on here who never have any trouble?

Ian

 

[carl_saint]

3-4 out of 12 is a lot! Have you looked at your fermenting temps. If you let them get too high then your gonna get bad flavours!

 

[iian]

dont think its down to temp, generally use a fish tank heater set to 20 degrees

 

[carl_saint]

Do you always use the same fermenter? If so and you've had bad brews I'd ditch it and get a new one! May not be this but worth a try!

 

[eggman]

That sounds like a high failure rate What are you using to sterilise? VWP by any chance? I've only ever lost one brew to a tcp like taste and it was down to not rinsing thoroughly, I now rinse everything at least 3 times and not had any more problems
:

 

[rpt]

Try a no rinse steriliser like Starsan.

 

[PD]

quote.
dont think its down to temp, generally use a fish tank heater set to 20 degrees

Have you checked the temp against another thermometer. Fish tank heater thermostats are notoriously out in their settings....

 

[calumscott]

TCP, trichlorphenol.

Quite distinctive smell...

Three chlorines and a phenol. I think you are suffering from both the problems others have suggested. Phenols can be caused by high fermentation temperature. Chlorine could be residual from your steriliser or your water company could be over zealous...

PD's suggestion is right, and if you want to get really to the bottom of it, get a digital thermometer with a remote probe, sanitise it and leave it in your fermenting beer. Adjust your water bath to get the temperature down to 18 or 19*C.

Second, pay really close attention to rinsing your FV before you brew. I use VWP and get on great with it, rinsing FVs is along the lines of: empty out steriliser, rinse (use your hand to wash down the sides and bottom), empty and repeat, stick head in bucket and sniff for chlorine, repeat until gone. Usually two or three rinses is required.

If the smell never goes, it's your water. In that case you will have to prepare for your brewday a little earlier. You'll also need a spare FV which, an hour or so before you start to mix, you should sanitise and rinse, fill with water and stir in a crushed campden tablet. That will sort out any residual chlorine and chloramines from your tap water.

Try all that with your next one and see if it's any better. :thumb:

Also, just out of curiosity - what kits have you done and which ones got poured?

 

[rpt]

You'll also need a spare FV which, an hour or so before you start to mix, you should sanitise and rinse, fill with water and stir in a crushed campden tablet. That will sort out any residual chlorine and chloramines from your tap water.

So does it take that long? I've only been leaving it long enough to sterilise the primary FV and other bits, and to rinse the malt out of the can.

 

[calumscott]

You'll also need a spare FV which, an hour or so before you start to mix, you should sanitise and rinse, fill with water and stir in a crushed campden tablet. That will sort out any residual chlorine and chloramines from your tap water.

So does it take that long? I've only been leaving it long enough to sterilise the primary FV and other bits, and to rinse the malt out of the can.

Campden Tablets actually work really quickly for dechlorination. But at the dosage of one tab per 5 gallons there will be plenty of free sulphur dioxide (actually sulphurous acid once dissolved) kicking around to keep nasties in check so there's no harm in treating your water early and giving it time to make sure it's worked. :thumb:

 

[anthonyUK]

You can also rinse any chlorine sterilised equipment with campden solution to remove any traces e.g. FVs.
Try using bottled water for one batch to eliminate that as a source. It will only add £3 or so.

 

[iian]

thanks to you all, some good advice there for me to think about.

To answer a few questions, the kits i have brewed with tcp taste have been a muntons old conkerwood, which i was absolutely gutted about also a couple of woodfordes kits.

Dont think it can be down to the water i use because its happened when i have used bottled water and if i use tap water i treat with half a crushed campden tablet.

Makes me think it must be either too high a fermentation temp or not rinsing steriliser out of fermenter well enough.
I always use VWP by the way.

Have been tempted to give up brewing at times but carry on because when the brews come out good, they are absolutely delicious,

 

[Sandimas]

I'm wondering how long you leave the VWP solution in the FV to do the sterilisation, and if that's your problem - not enough time for it to really work?

I don't know how long is recommended, but I tend to leave it for at least 2-3 hrs then empty out and rinse with tap water 2-3 times to get rid of any remaining. 28 brews, using VWP to sterilise - no failures. I don't use Campen tablets either, had a 3rd tap fitted to the sink during a re-fit with a catridge filter in line, seems to take out a load of the bad stuff and definately makes a positive contribution to the beer quality. Although your problem sounds more fundamental than chlorine in the water.

Good luck, I bet that's frustrating, it would put me off homebrewing a bit.

 

[carl_saint]

I use VWP and normally leave for 20 mins. It says it's effective after 5-10 mins. I too had one brew that had a real tcp taste last year and I put it down to not rinsing enough. Now I always over rinse and not had anymore bad luck! It's heartbreaking throwing it away but stick with it!

 

[bigboots]

Interesting!
As far as sterilising goes, I have a fermenter that I have only used VWP in once and TBH I felt it was difficult to rinse it all out. (about 4/5/maybe 6 rinses before the smell had dissipated substantially). After that I simply wash THOROUGHLY with warm water and a non scratch scourer, then fill with water containing 3 crushed campden tablets for at least an hour. Must have brewed maybe 15 kits in this fermenter after this and NEVER had any bother.
:

 

[iian]

i tend to leave the vwp in for about 12 minutes, maybe i should leave it a bit longer, when it comes to rinsing i dont like to touch the inside of the fermenter after pouring out the vwp so just rinse under the tap 3 or 4 times. Maybe i should rinse with some boiling water, might help, perhaps i should try a different sterilizer, might ask in my local hbs.

 

[calumscott]

VWP is lethal at the standard dose (1 tsp per gallon) in five to ten minutes according to the instructions.

I use 1tbsp per 5 gallon bucket and very often don't wait 5 mins.

Seriously, this stuff kills *everything* even at reduced dosing. Stick your arms in it (if you don't have alergies!) for a bit while you wait. Sterile hands! :thumb:

 

[iian]

you fill the 5 gallon to the top, with one teaspoon of vwp? I tend to use 6 teaspoons and fill to the brim

 

[calumscott]

tbsp = tablespoon. :thumb:

 

[carl_saint]

Once I've finished this batch of VWP off I'm not using it anymore! Gonna get some starsan!