Rules on free bar social club

[allotment_fox]

just to add a few pennies worth If you were to make your cider from apples i understand you can do this free of tax up to a ceiling of around 7000 litres

 

[Chippy_Tea]

just to add a few pennies worth If you were to make your cider from apples i understand you can do this free of tax up to a ceiling of around 7000 litres

I wonder why cider is exempt up to 7000 litres.

3.1 Do I need to register​

Yes, if:

• you make or propose to make cider for sale
• your total production — including cider for your own consumption — in any rolling period of 12 consecutive months either exceeds 70 hectolitres (7000 litres), or is likely to do so

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...production/excise-notice-162-cider-production

 

[AJA]

I wonder why cider is exempt up to 7000 litres.

3.1 Do I need to register​

Yes, if:

• you make or propose to make cider for sale
• your total production — including cider for your own consumption — in any rolling period of 12 consecutive months either exceeds 70 hectolitres (7000 litres), or is likely to do so

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...production/excise-notice-162-cider-production

I the draft duty regulations this 'factory gate' allowance will apply to cider and to beer.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Does it class as supplying if people bring their own? I know there are restaurants that don't serve alcohol but allow you to bring your own, I presume this is because they don't have a license.

No. If people bring their own, you aren't supplying it. So you don't need a licence. Exactly as you state for the BYOB restaurants.

 

[Jim Brewster]

That was my point, so a social club may fall under the same exemption; as in no license needed if people are bringing their own

 

[Agentgonzo]

That was my point, so a social club may fall under the same exemption; as in no license needed if people are bringing their own

Obviously, none of us are lawyers, so you take a risk. But that seems to be the best guess.

 

[Justin Dean]

Do not worry about it. Just do not invite a jobsworth......

 

[AsmadYaldin]

That's a good question. If you want to arrange a bar, you need to follow the laws in the country where you live. Some rules are stricter, and the taxes vary from place to place. I suggest calculating everything before starting, as it can turn out that it doesn't give you much profit. However, I wish you good luck. Here's a top bar and restaurant in Europe, which you could check for inspiration and ideas. I hope you like it. Good luck!

 

[BlackRegent]

yeah sorry all, this wasn't a homebrew question, more a question of socialising in office space and drinking with friends. It certainly would not be a commercial enterprise, just a place for mates to hang out and have a beer (bought through commercial channels) I mean, if I went all out, I'd say to be a "member" of said social club, we all stick a fiver in a pot, and buy a keg or 2 once a month and consume it. But again, it wouldn't be "sold" per say, just a group of people getting together in a communal space.

Essentially, the office I'm looking at has a 7m x 6m room which I have no practical use for. It would be a spare room. So I though I could stick a pool table in there, a small bar setup and some chairs, a Dart board etc and just have a good space to hang out when people are available.

The rest of the office would be for work of course.

I would say check your tenancy agreement. Most commercial leases have restrictions on use. Put it this way: if I had a commercial property and rented it out for office space, I would not be happy if a tenant decided to use part of it for a bar to which he invited third parties who had no express or implied right of occupancy.

 

[user 18729]

Licensing will trigger the planning morons at the council to get involved and you’ll open up a whole can of worms.

If you’d like to occasionally sell beers to raise money, you could TENs it every now and then and no premises license is then needed. You could then (if council jobsworths got involved) state that the ‘bar’ is ancillary to the main use of the commercial property as it’s rarely used and therefore it doesn’t constitute a change of use.

Hope this helps

 

[Jim Brewster]

I was at a small local fundraising beer festival at the weekend and noticed they had a lot of pressure barrels there, about 1/3 of the beers on offer were in them, the others were in usual casks

Got me wondering if I could make a brew when next year's comes around and donate it, or if there are rules that would make it unfeasible. I wouldn't charge them anything but they would be selling it. Not sure how that would work - if it would be perfectly acceptable or a no-no

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Got me wondering if I could make a brew when next year's comes around and donate it, or if there are rules that would make it unfeasible. I wouldn't charge them anything but they would be selling it. Not sure how that would work - if it would be perfectly acceptable or a no-no

I suspect the best approach may be not to ask ;-)

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Got me wondering if I could make a brew when next year's comes around and donate it, or if there are rules that would make it unfeasible. I wouldn't charge them anything but they would be selling it. Not sure how that would work - if it would be perfectly acceptable or a no-no

The problem is that rule that broadly says you can't drink homebrew outside your home. Although it's is widely ignored it also depends on the arbitrary decision of the local licensing authorities and plod. But something like a homebrew competition is generally tolerated as the beer is not being "sold", whereas anything that looks like wholesaling bulk beer for resale will attract more attention.

Another aspect is that since 2017, anyone selling alcohol for resale can only buy from companies registered with the Alcohol Wholesaler Registration Scheme (AWRS)on pain of fines or up to 7 years inside. Realistically that wouldn't happen, but a responsible festival organiser would say that it's not worth the risk to their good name with the local authorities.

 

[Jim Brewster]

Ah, I thought as much. I wasn't aware of the AWRS, had a quick look at the summary and there's a mention of an exemption for eg, village fetes, though I'm not sure what it all entails so sounds like it'll be way too much hassle.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Ah, I thought as much. I wasn't aware of the AWRS, had a quick look at the summary and there's a mention of an exemption for eg, village fetes, though I'm not sure what it all entails so sounds like it'll be way too much hassle.

The village fete example covers eg the village pub selling beer to the village fete for the fete to sell. Technically the pub is acting as a wholesaler in that case, but it's exempt from registration as a wholesaler under AWRS because the normal business of the pub is selling retail.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The problem is that rule that broadly says you can't drink homebrew outside your home.

IIRC you are not even allowed to give it to family and friends, obviously we do and I doubt anyone has ever. been prosecuted.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

IIRC you are not even allowed to give it to family and friends, obviously we do and I doubt anyone has ever. been prosecuted.

Sure - but the point is that the law exists and can be deployed when it suits the authorities - and when money changes hands is when the Revenue get interested. And it all depends on local licensing authorities - some are fine with eg having a homebrew festival that you pay to enter, but some are not. But in any case, what you'll find is that it usually doesn't get that far - when you are a commercial operator whose business completely depends on having a licence, they tend to get very cautious about things that might upset the licensing authorities.

But if you're looking for where the line gets drawn, there's been several prosecutions for buying alcohol from non-AWRS sources, it's the main framework now for countering smuggling and fake booze. For instance a shop in Bolton was closed down and fined £12k for not buying from AWRS sources :
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/brits-warned-lethal-fake-vodka-21185500

 

[Justin Dean]

I have brewed for a homebrew festival at a place this weekend and it is ticketed in return for which ticket can be used to get beer. All proceeds from tickets goes to charity

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have brewed for a homebrew festival at a place this weekend and it is ticketed in return for which ticket can be used to get beer. All proceeds from tickets goes to charity

The charity aspect is irrelevant to the various laws that are being broken. But the law often works like that, the letter of the law is often more severe than it needs to be, just so that discretion can be applied and the book thrown at people who really take the mickey. Conversely licensees who run a good place and keep good relations with the authorities, are cut a lot more slack.

 

[Justin Dean]

This festival has been running since the 1979s like this