Scorched/burnt wort

[thegrantickle]

Hi all,

So last week I modified my 30L stainless steel brew-pot to have 2 x 2000W kettle elements in it. They have just been ripped out from cheap kettles and installed into holes I cut in the steel. I was previously boiling on the stove, and have had some great brews using this method.

First brew yesterday using the new elements and it completely scorched my wort. This was gutting as it was a triple decoction mash on a heritage malt for a barleywine. The pre-boil mash was tasting incredible, so I know it was not my decoction which caused the problem. During the start of the boil I could smell burning, and turned one of the elements off just so the other would maintain the boil. Post-boil it was clearly ruined. I've pitched yeast just to see what happens, but it's so bad I don't think it'll get any better. May try to throw some marshmallows in for for a secondary and call it a toasted marshmallow barley-wine.

So my question is this: is it most likely that the hops have scorched or wort wort itself? I used whole-leaf for this batch, but also (stupidly) threw them straight into the boil without any kind of basket/spider/false bottom without thinking.

What are peoples thoughts? Use a hop spider and it should be fine in future, or is it still likely the elements are too powerful and are scorching the sugars? I've seen a lot of people using these style elements in their brew kettles so would be surprised if it is the sugars which are burning.

Any and all advice appreciated.

Cheers
Grant

 

[Clint]

I would have thought any scorching would have been on the element or bottom of the kettle..I don't think the hops would be your problem. Were the elements brand new? Could it have been manufacturing residue burning off? Grease/cutting compound from your hole cutting?

 

[thegrantickle]

I would have thought any scorching would have been on the element or bottom of the kettle..I don't think the hops would be your problem. Were the elements brand new? Could it have been manufacturing residue burning off? Grease/cutting compound from your hole cutting?

Hey Clint,

The elements were brand new. Gave them a good clean before use, as did i the rest of the kettle so no residue I can think of. The elements themselves were black and had a layer of burn residue on them after the boil - I just cant figure out if this was hop matter or sugars from the wort!

 

[Clint]

I'd say sugars...

 

[strange-steve]

It happened to me once many years ago, I put it down to a combination of a high watt density element (from a kettle) and a lot of flour in the malt (it was a wheat beer) which settled and burnt onto the element. Like you I pitched the yeast anyway and hoped for the best but after a week I dumped it. Tasted like an ashtray.

 

[Clint]

Ashtray..you might get away with it...call it Senior Service IPA...very hipster!

 

[thegrantickle]

Ashtray..you might get away with it...call it Senior Service IPA...very hipster!

Did someone say Tiny Rebel? Whaaaaat....

 

[Dads_Ale]

It is almost certainly not down to the hops but rather linked to very fine particulate matter from the mash in the boiled wort.
I have never had any problem with hops but had a bit of burnt matter on my elements when I used some powdery additions in the mash. Think it was rice if some sort.

 

[foxbat]

It happens during the ramp up to the boil when the wort's not yet circulating under the heat of the boil. Keep stirring during the ramp up and never let it settle. Once it's boiling you can relax and stop stirring.

It's not the leaf hops added during the boil. At that stage there's no chance of them settling on the element.

 

[thegrantickle]

It is almost certainly not down to the hops but rather linked to very fine particulate matter from the mash in the boiled wort.
I have never had any problem with hops but had a bit of burnt matter on my elements when I used some powdery additions in the mash. Think it was rice if some sort.

Cheers for that. The wort was running of really clear after the mash, and it was just a single malt beer (chevallier heritage malt).

Think I may do my next couple of brews using the hob as I was before, then run some experiments with DME and the kettle elements to get to the bottom of it.

 

[thegrantickle]

It happens during the ramp up to the boil when the wort's not yet circulating under the heat of the boil. Keep stirring during the ramp up and never let it settle. Once it's boiling you can relax and stop stirring.

It's not the leaf hops added during the boil. At that stage there's no chance of them settling on the element.

Thank you. That makes sense for sure! It was first wort hops so that could also have contributed. There were deffo some hop cones stuck onto the elements but I think you are probably spot on with the circulation of wort around the element.

Have you got/had a similar setup? If so would you normally use a hop spider or throw straight in?

 

[foxbat]

Have you got/had a similar setup? If so would you normally use a hop spider or throw straight in?

My kettle is custom made from a thermopot with a normal 2.4kW kettle element in it. Those elements aren't low watt density so I'm always careful to stir during the ramp-up, boring though it is.

I use pellet hops and bag them in a large bag tied off over the edge of the kettle. Leaf hops are the reason pellet hops exist

 

[thegrantickle]

My kettle is custom made from a thermopot with a normal 2.4kW kettle element in it. Those elements aren't low watt density so I'm always careful to stir during the ramp-up, boring though it is.

I use pellet hops and bag them in a large bag tied off over the edge of the kettle. Leaf hops are the reason pellet hops exist

Aye aye. Pellets pellets. Haha. The reason I chose leaf hops was that we were going for as close to historic as we could with an English Barleywine, Chevallier Heritage Malt, Phoenix leaf hops, Nottingham yeast, triple decoction mash.

Usually I'd go for pellets for most of my brews. Any recommendations of a bag for this use? For dry hopping I've been using the plastic produce mesh bags you get from supermarkets - they seem easier to sanitise for this use but not convinced the plastic would stand up to the heat in a boil.

 

[muppix]

May try to throw some marshmallows in for for a secondary and call it a toasted marshmallow barley-wine.

Loving that idea.

My money's on your elements being too powerful to heat something with flavouring, i.e. other than water. Kettles don't really have that problem since you can't burn water and everyone seems to rate them on low boil times, but try to heat something flavoured and you end up with a mess. (ask me about that mulled wine...)

You could try your luck fitting a rheostat via a relay to 'pulse' the element, settling on a point where you get decent thermal efficiency without burning? The only other way would be to use the element to heat actual water, and have your brew in a submerged vessel inside that water, dumb as it sounds.

 

[thegrantickle]

Loving that idea.

My money's on your elements being too powerful to heat something with flavouring, i.e. other than water. Kettles don't really have that problem since you can't burn water and everyone seems to rate them on low boil times, but try to heat something flavoured and you end up with a mess. (ask me about that mulled wine...)

You could try your luck fitting a rheostat via a relay to 'pulse' the element, settling on a point where you get decent thermal efficiency without burning? The only other way would be to use the element to heat actual water, and have your brew in a submerged vessel inside that water, dumb as it sounds.

Aye totally get the high watt density thing, but I'm not the first person to rip out shitty kettle elements and fire them in a brewpot?

 

[muppix]

Aye totally get the high watt density thing, but I'm not the first person to rip out shitty kettle elements and fire them in a brewpot?

Naah - you just had a better donor kettle than they did.

 

[thegrantickle]

Naah - you just had a better donor kettle than they did.

Aha kettles from B&M are banging for £7 apparently haha

 

[Clint]

Fwiw...I seem to recall good advice for grainfather users is to scrape the boiler bottom as it's heating the wort to stop it burning...

 

[Dads_Ale]

Ah I should have read the original post fully before replying.
I based my not blaming the hops on my 60 litre pot and twin 2400 elements so plenty of space for movement of the sort during heating. A 30 litre pot with two element may well generate enough heat to scorch FWH.

 

[thegrantickle]

Ah I should have read the original post fully before replying.
I based my not blaming the hops on my 60 litre pot and twin 2400 elements so plenty of space for movement of the sort during heating. A 30 litre pot with two element may well generate enough heat to scorch FWH.

Cheers!