Secondary regulators - kegland, micro-matic etc

[peebee]

@The-Engineer-That-Brews : That second photo above is actually using those NR200s as "spunding valves" during fermentation! They have very accurate "relieving" mechanisms. They are "relieving" regulators so the keg shouldn't over pressure with the NR200 attached. They "relieve" at about 30-50% over set-pressure hence the gauges read 12psi but the regulator's set-pressure was 7psi (you'll need to check this - please tell me what they really relieve at if you do!).

Many such regulators are of the relieving type (I don't think the Kegland ones are?), but NR200s are particularly accurate and repeatable. Warning: "Abusing" the regulators in this way does require the CO2 cylinder to be attached to maintain the backpressure (it doesn't otherwise use any gas though).

 

[Buffers brewery]

As you may have noticed I use this fleebay supplier for my connectors and I think this is the type of connector PB was alluding to…

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133654967282?hash=item1f1e74f3f2:g:WzQAAOSwwXRiOg1x

 

[peebee]

That's them! And from "Context Pneumatics" too; my old, preferred supplier. So they're back in the game too. That "reseller" change has seemingly been pulled out of?

Ebay was always the best way to get ones, or just a few items off them. But if you can put together a shopping list that negates the otherwise high flat rate p&p charge, going direct to them is much cheaper (or was!).

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@peebee
Why could you not try the build with duotight fittings and some JG screw ins?
Your solenoid is it powered for long periods and does it get warm? What are it's specifications please?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Many thanks @peebee just seen your pics that looks fab.
I understand about the ‘relieving’ regulators: my ODL primary does it but only if I turn the control down by 7 or 8 psi - never measured the exactly figure. Clever and original idea to use that for spunding!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Really useful discussion this.
Thanks @peebee @Buffers brewery for the valuable info on suppliers.

The variety of threads, systems and materials for connections is bonkers isn’t it. I thought I was pretty familiar with most of them - but I‘ve never seen those ‘stud to hose’ (finger tight) ones before so thanks for that and also for the link to the supplier. I’m sure I’ve used ‘context pneumatics’ in the past too via eBay for various imperial sized pushfit studs but I’d forgotten their coordinates.

Funnily enough I did a bit of searching around online yesterday seeing if I could get an adapter to go direct from the thread on a corny ball-lock (1/4“ male flare) to BSPP so I could mount a Shako reg directly on a keg. No luck although I could go via a very short length of 3/8” tube I suppose. Not even sure whether mounting them on the keg would be a good idea even - I‘ll know better when they turn up later today

 

[JockyBrewer]

If you look around you can get the pub quality secondary regulators with a gauge for under £30: REFURBISHED CORNELIUS SECONDARY CO2/MIXED GAS REGULATOR WITH J/GUEST FITTING | eBay

I use five of these on my setup. They're designed for continual pub use, so will last for many years, and when they go wrong can be rebuilt.

While the kegland regs were cheaper initially, they were missing a few things which swayed my decision:

1. Pub regs have a isolation switch for each reg. If I'm not carbonating or pouring I shut off my gas to avoid draining the tank from small gas leaks, or dumping out entire kegs into the keezer if there's a liquid leak.

2. Pub regs can be daisy chained, saving buying T pieces or splitters for multiple regs.

3. Kegland reg connectors are 5/16", whereas the pub ones are 3/8". My main reg is 3/8", so I'd need have needed to put adapters somewhere in the system to convert.

 

[Buffers brewery]

If you want to mount the regulator directly you might be able to do it in two goes, flare to NTP and NTP to BSP.

 

[peebee]

...
Funnily enough I did a bit of searching around online yesterday seeing if I could get an adapter to go direct from the thread on a corny ball-lock (1/4“ male flare) to BSPP so I could mount a Shako reg directly on a keg. No luck although I could go via a very short length of 3/8” tube I suppose. Not even sure whether mounting them on the keg would be a good idea even - I‘ll know better when they turn up later today

I'll get you a part number - but got to dash just now ...

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

If you want to mount the regulator directly you might be able to do it in two goes, flare to NTP and NTP to BSP.

Good point. I've done similar before but it can get a bit pricey :-)
There seems to be a generally poor selection of adapters from 1/4" female flare (FFL) to anything 'normal' except 3/8" pushfit or barb.
I'm not particularly fussed about it but it's just surprising. Wouldn't have expected it to be so niche.

I found these for example but 'beer thread' (SANKE) is a pretty weird size too...

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

This is more like it

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Maybe this explains the difficulty finding 1/4" FFL thread adapters (from kegoutlet.com)

Note that these fittings are generally refered to as 1/4" MFL and 1/4" FFL, however the 1/4" designation is not 100% accurate - the actual thread size of these fittings is 7/16"-20UNF. View the MFL diagram below.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Funnily enough I did a bit of searching around online yesterday seeing if I could get an adapter to go direct from the thread on a corny ball-lock (1/4“ male flare) to BSPP so I could mount a Shako reg directly on a keg. No luck although I could go via a very short length of 3/8” tube I suppose. Not even sure whether mounting them on the keg would be a good idea even - I‘ll know better when they turn up later today

Dare I ask why/what you are intending?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Dare I ask why/what you are intending?

Just out of interest seeing if I could mount a SHAKO secondary regulator (1/4" BSP port) direct onto a Corny disconnect. Not fussed about it just exploring it as an idea ;-)

 

[JockyBrewer]

Just out of interest seeing if I could mount a SHAKO secondary regulator (1/4" BSP port) direct onto a Corny disconnect. Not fussed about it just exploring it as an idea ;-)

Looks like @peebee has already done this: CO2 Regulator Advice

 

[Buffers brewery]

Just found this one…

https://www.hydra-star.co.uk/Products/BSP_x_JIC_Male_Female_Hydraulic_Adaptors/04039440

 

[peebee]

Maybe this explains the difficulty finding 1/4" FFL thread adapters (from kegoutlet.com)

Note that these fittings are generally refered to as 1/4" MFL and 1/4" FFL, however the 1/4" designation is not 100% accurate - the actual thread size of these fittings is 7/16"-20UNF. View the MFL diagram below.

Ah yes. I should have mentioned that! It's 7/16 UNF, not that 1/4" ffl/mfl drivel. You think it'd just us (Brits) that have screwy thread sizes? (The pun was an accident!).

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Oooh - toys!

I'm guessing the ports on the right and left are the in/out (as per the arrows on the back).
So are the ones on the front and back both output pressure?
I guess the blanking plug goes in the unused one

 

[peebee]

Ah yes. I should have mentioned that! It's 7/16 UNF, not that 1/4" ffl/mfl drivel. You think it'd just us (Brits) that have screwy thread sizes? (The pun was an accident!).

@The-Engineer-That-Brews: This will get you your adapter ...

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/gas-setup-questions.84960/post-865487
From a time when I was only beginning to use Context Pneumatics.

... I guess the blanking plug goes in the unused one

You might want the gauge facing the other way! ... Yes, they both access output pressure (and I do use the default blanked port for console mounted gauges).

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Oh my lord these Shako valves are soooo smooth to adjust

Getting a slight seepage around the gauge thread - do you use PTFE tape or some sort of silicone sealant?