Strike temperature question

[johnbarleycorn]

Evening brewers....

Since upgrading my AG system to a 2 pump HERMS system i have been following the "Old Farts Brewery" (Jim Payne) system and adding my freshly milled grain very very slowly and stirring whilst doing so.

My past couple of brews have turned out fine.

The last brew, I added the grains to 65c water and it took about 10-15 mins to stir it all in, then i immediatley circulated the wort through the HERMS for 90 mins at 65c.

The mash tun is an insulated 32l picnic cooler.

I didnt take a temp reading whilst doughing in, but i must have dropped a few degrees in temp for at least 10-15mins.

I started my 90 mins timing from the wort circulating.

efficiency is currently about 80%

Is the increase in efficiency down to the slow addition of the grain, or, the temp raising of the wort after doughing in ?

Any comments welcome....:thumb:

 

[Zephyr259]

Is that mash or brewhouse efficiency? I'd assume mash but best to confirm. What were you getting with your previous system?

Your system is essentially the same as the grainfather uses, heat strike water to mash temp then dough in rather than having to over heat the water to allow for the grains cooling the mash. I generally see a decrease of a degree or 2 while doughing in but the temp is being measured below the grain so it's probably not brilliantly accurate until the re-circulation is going, even then it doesn't fall much and quickly gets back to mash temp.

Slow addition of grains would help efficiency by ensuring everything is evenly mixed and no dry spots. Not sure what you mean by the temp raising as it looks constant from your post.

 

[Dutto]

Hmmm!

Can't give a definitive answer but I try to use the following Tips (can't remember where I got them from) to produce the required sugars from the malt.

BREWING TIPS

Strike Water = 2.6 to 3 litres per 1kg of grain.

Mash at:
o 55 to 66 degrees (High Alcohol - dry) or
o 68 to 72 degrees (Low Alcohol - sweet)
for one hour.

DO NOT exceed 75 degrees.

Stir after 20 and 40 minutes.

Heat SPARGE water to 80 degrees.

Lauter until wort runs clear and then Sparge at one litre per minute.

Stop sparge when runnings reach SG1.008 / SG1.012."

As a general rule, I have to heat the Strike Water to 68-75 and 80-85 degrees to achieve the two different mash temperatures so your 65 degrees looks on the low side TO ME (and probably no-one else).

Hope this helps. :thumb:

 

[wfr42]

I usually need to get my strike water upto 72-75degrees to ensure I mash in at between 65 and 67 degrees for my mash.

I can't recirculate so don't know if mashing in lower and recirculating and continuing to heat will give the efficiency boost you have seen.

 

[DoctorMick]

My temp went up by 4 degrees after I'd doughed in yesterday, how does that work?

 

[Gunge]

My temp went up by 4 degrees after I'd doughed in yesterday, how does that work?

Probably climate change, like most things these days. The beer will be much worse than you thought, will result in rising wort levels and your yeast will become extinct. But more likely that the temp of the liqour in the mash tun was not fully equalised throughout before adding the grains and everything will work out fine.

 

[DoctorMick]

Probably climate change, like most things these days. The beer will be much worse than you thought, will result in rising wort levels and your yeast will become extinct. But more likely that the temp of the liqour in the mash tun was not fully equalised throughout before adding the grains and everything will work out fine.

:lol: That'll explain it!

 

[peebee]

...
Since upgrading my AG system to a 2 pump HERMS system i have been following the "Old Farts Brewery" (Jim Payne) system and adding my freshly milled grain very very slowly and stirring whilst doing so....

The method I use is a bit different to the "normal" methods. I think it is a modification along the lines of what "The Electric Brewery" documents.

The entire dose of mash water is put into the mash tun (this also allows water treatment of mash water different to the sparge water in the HLT). The mash tun water is heated to strike temperature (72-76C) by recirculating in the HERMS. The grain is then added fairly swiftly to the mash water. The fairly swift mash-in is because initially the temperature could be settling out a trifle high. Balling does occur from swift mash-in, but the lumps get knocked out easy enough.

Got to get the HLT temperature down to mash temperature (from strike temp.) before recirculating and I'm currently working on a clever dick idea to do just that quickly and accurately. Mash efficiency is about 83-84% and frighteningly consistent.


(EDIT: The big difference with "The Electric Brewery" procedures is that he doesn't heat to "strike temp." Like the OP, grain is mixed with water at mash temp. and then HERMS recirculated immediately so the mash temp. is attained in the mashtun. This isn't supposed to take long, but I'm not convinced.)

 

[nigelnorris]

My temp went up by 4 degrees after I'd doughed in yesterday, how does that work?

Happens every time I brew. I think that the Ace boiler I have stores up heat in the element and releases it during the few minutes after I've switched off the power.

 

[JapanBrew]

You've effectively nailed it What you're doing is a kind of protein rest. This really helps the enzymes do their job. Back in the day, this was very common. I love how Dutto spells it out but it's his first line that cracks me up... you need to understand the enzymes at work. Knowing this will let you develop complicated recipes that will make the beer you want.

 

[Dutto]

.... you need to understand the enzymes at work. Knowing this will let you develop complicated recipes that will make the beer you want.

Er .... I hate to disagree!

Especially as one of the things I used to bang on about when lecturing was:

"A man who knows 'How' will always be in work;
but a man who knows 'Why' will always be in charge of him."
:whistle: :whistle:

To produce the beer that I want (like?) all I need to know is what I need to do and not why I need to do it! :thumb: :thumb:

I rely on you educated lads to keep me right on that aspect of brewing! :lol:

 

[johnbarleycorn]

Afternoon chaps.....
Thanks for all your replies, I have read them all and what strikes me is that we have all got our own different ways to a common theme- we all usually get good beer at the end.
I think @JapanBrew makes sense for my set up;
I've just had another early morning brewup (thanks to the "youths" having an all night rave/party somewhere in East London), another Greg H recipe, this time the Yorkshire bitter (pg 141). Used CML English ale yeast came out at 1046.
Had more foam generated whilst pouring it into the FV than an explosion at a Gillette factory....
Anyway, thanks again fellow brewers and wassail !!!