The Value of Secondary FV

[MikeK117]

Hi Guys

I currently have a general rule of 2 weeks primary, 1 week secondary, then bottle.

I've read that taking the beer off the yeast will help the beer to clear and I like the idea of the nearly finished brew sitting in a new, clean FV with very little sediment when bottling. I bottle directly out of the secondary as I do not have a bottling bucket, nor do I intend to get one right now.

But does the second FV have any real value? I can certainly see this if you are dry hopping, but for a kit that isn't being modified, is there any need for the secondary or can it just be left for a little longer in the primary?

The reason I ask is that I have a kit in primary which will not fit into any of my other fermenters and I don't want to buy another one just yet! :lol:

 

[wheazy_joe]

Lots of differing opinions on this, like everything else!

For me; my beer goes straight from primary into bottles, regardless. I would see transferring to a secondary FV as an unnecessary risk of introducing oxygen or infection into the beer. For that reason I don't batch prime either. The lid goes on the FV and only comes off when I'm dry hopping (take SG reading at this time) then when I'm bottling. Less chance of anything going wrong this way.

Like everything else, someone will come along and tell you I'm talking rubbish, but hey we all brew differently!

 

[ManseMasher]

I'm with wheazy_joe on this one. Two weeks fv, keg or bottle, two weeks warm, two weeks cold, two weeks all gone.....

 

[MyQul]

For that reason I don't batch prime either.

I batch prime but I don't use a bottling bucket. I just pour the priming solution into the beer, very gently stir then leave it for 30 mins to settle any disturbed trub, then package. Works well. I've been doing this almost as long as I've been HBing

 

[wheazy_joe]

I batch prime but I don't use a bottling bucket. I just pour the priming solution into the beer, very gently stir then leave it for 30 mins to settle any disturbed trub, then package. Works well. I've been doing this almost as long as I've been HBing

Interesting approach MyQul I never thought of batch priming in the primary FV.

 

[MyQul]

Interesting approach MyQul I never thought of batch priming in the primary FV.

The usual approach is to put the priming solution in the bottling bucket then rack the beer on top. But I don't understand how you know exactly how much beer your going to end up with having had to leave some behind with the trub. So that going to throw your priming calculations out the window. That why I started to batch prime in the Primary FV

 

[jeg3]

I find with the pale beers I get a clearer beer if I rack off the primary after a few days. I ensure its down near the FG first though. There's enough yeast left in suspension to ensure a good secondary.

With darker beers or wheat beers, I can leave in primary for 2w cos clarity is less important

 

[DanST]

I usually rack to a second fv for a week after 2 weeks in primary. I seem to get less sediment in my bottles that way. That said I do agree with the above comments in that less messing with it is generally better.

If i didnt have a second fv anyway I wouldn't buy one just to do this. I'd also take into consideration how confident you are using a syphon and keeping things sterile. By this point your beer is a pretty hostile environment for invading nasties but with any handling there's a risk of contamination.

Maybe don't bother with a secondary this time and see how it goes? Your not going to completely ruin a batch by not using a secondary.

 

[LarryF]

Lots of differing opinions on this, like everything else!

For me; my beer goes straight from primary into bottles, regardless. I would see transferring to a secondary FV as an unnecessary risk of introducing oxygen or infection into the beer. For that reason I don't batch prime either. The lid goes on the FV and only comes off when I'm dry hopping (take SG reading at this time) then when I'm bottling. Less chance of anything going wrong this way.

Like everything else, someone will come along and tell you I'm talking rubbish, but hey we all brew differently!

I'm worse than wheazy, I add hop tea and bag to the FV and then only crack the lid for a quick look when I'm bottling to check for nasties. I prime the bottles and not the FV, what I aim for is that the first time my beer meets air is at the bottom of the bottle. The thought of tipping 23L down the drain has me sitting in bed with the quilt over my head rocking backwards and forwards.

 

[colliefish]

I primary for 3 to 4 weeks at a stable 20 deg C
Then either
Siphon into cornie and force carb for at least a week.
Siphon on top of batch prime solution in bottling bucket. Then bottle. Then keep in brew fridge at 20 deg for 2 weeks. Then cold environment (shed). For at least 2 weeks.
I'm usually brewing 2 batches constantly so can afford to play the waiting game.
As an additional and totally unrelated note. Since I started this hobby (and I'm mainly kit brewing and tweaking at the moment) I find the beer in the pub is dissapointing and my stouts out perform my previously loved Guinness. :-(

 

[mirsultankhan]

Hi Guys

I currently have a general rule of 2 weeks primary, 1 week secondary, then bottle.

I've read that taking the beer off the yeast will help the beer to clear and I like the idea of the nearly finished brew sitting in a new, clean FV with very little sediment when bottling. I bottle directly out of the secondary as I do not have a bottling bucket, nor do I intend to get one right now.

But does the second FV have any real value? I can certainly see this if you are dry hopping, but for a kit that isn't being modified, is there any need for the secondary or can it just be left for a little longer in the primary?

The reason I ask is that I have a kit in primary which will not fit into any of my other fermenters and I don't want to buy another one just yet! :lol:

I read somewhere that its racked off to avoid any potentially unsavoury yeast character that may become apparent because of the beer being in prolonged contact with the yeast bed. This is the idea behind a conical fermenter in that the surface area of the yeast bed/trub etc is a smaller surface area than a traditional set up. It may be though that you want prologned contact with the yeast bed to give your beer a strong yeast profile. I suspect that it depends on the type of beer you are brewing and the profile that you would like to create. Personally I like to rack mine off the yeast into a fresh FV after two weeks and I leave it outside on the decking with a black bag over it for about a week or so. It comes in crystal clear. The downside is that it takes longer to carbonate and condition.

 

[peebee]

I'm worse than wheazy, I add hop tea and bag to the FV and then only crack the lid for a quick look when I'm bottling to check for nasties. I prime the bottles and not the FV, what I aim for is that the first time my beer meets air is at the bottom of the bottle. The thought of tipping 23L down the drain has me sitting in bed with the quilt over my head rocking backwards and forwards.

I go with that! Secondary FVs is just asking for trouble. My brews benefited greatly from not being messed about with more than is absolutely necessary.

But then leaving your beer sitting around on tons of dross isn't without its hazards.

The real smarty-pants amongst us invested in a conical fermenter to get the best of both Worlds. After a few days the excess (and potentially hazardous) yeast and other muck is dumped; so your Primary FV becomes your Secondary FV without the beer going anywhere.

 

[peebee]

I read somewhere that its racked off to avoid any potentially unsavoury yeast character that may become apparent because of the beer being in prolonged contact with the yeast bed. This is the idea behind a conical fermenter in that the surface area of the yeast bed/trub etc is a smaller surface area than a traditional set up...

Oh aye, never had thought of that. My "smarty-pants" obviously need a bit of a polish.

 

[DanST]

I primary for 3 to 4 weeks at a stable 20 deg C
Then either
Siphon into cornie and force carb for at least a week.
Siphon on top of batch prime solution in bottling bucket. Then bottle. Then keep in brew fridge at 20 deg for 2 weeks. Then cold environment (shed). For at least 2 weeks.
I'm usually brewing 2 batches constantly so can afford to play the waiting game.
As an additional and totally unrelated note. Since I started this hobby (and I'm mainly kit brewing and tweaking at the moment) I find the beer in the pub is dissapointing and my stouts out perform my previously loved Guinness. :-(

Lol tell me about it! I had a party at Halloween. A barrel of coopers English bitter went down a storm. The fridge full of undrunk lager I've got now, not so much.

Used to love a cold bud now it's just meh. Had a bottle of brahma and it was really awful. I still like lager, loved the cheap and cheerful youngs harvest pilsner+honey I did for under a tenner but the big brewery stuff just tastes naff now.

 

[mirsultankhan]

Lol tell me about it! I had a party at Halloween. A barrel of coopers English bitter went down a storm. The fridge full of undrunk lager I've got now, not so much.

Used to love a cold bud now it's just meh. Had a bottle of brahma and it was really awful. I still like lager, loved the cheap and cheerful youngs harvest pilsner+honey I did for under a tenner but the big brewery stuff just tastes naff now.

yeah i went through the same experience, used to like Stella, cannot put it near my mouth anymore.

 

[wheazy_joe]

Which stout kit is it you make that out guns Guinness?

 

[Slid]

I primary for 3 to 4 weeks at a stable 20 deg C
Then either
Siphon into cornie and force carb for at least a week.
Siphon on top of batch prime solution in bottling bucket. Then bottle. Then keep in brew fridge at 20 deg for 2 weeks. Then cold environment (shed). For at least 2 weeks.
I'm usually brewing 2 batches constantly so can afford to play the waiting game.
As an additional and totally unrelated note. Since I started this hobby (and I'm mainly kit brewing and tweaking at the moment) I find the beer in the pub is dissapointing and my stouts out perform my previously loved Guinness. :-(

Love that one on the stouts.

Coopers Stout plus 1kg DME out performs Guinness. Adding some Chocolate grains and Roast Barley, steeped, boiled and aded to the wort, raises the quality again. Stout is the easiest style to pimp up. Just Do It! :thumb:

 

[Bevvied]

Have to agree about the Coppers Stout.
I used to drink Guinness all the time, now it just seems like a glass of bland creamy pap. Regardless of how the Coppers outperforms it in every way, I'm convinced the Guinness recipe has changed. Am I imagining it? There seems to be no bitterness, no bite to it at all. It's almost like milkshake!

 

[wheazy_joe]

Have to agree about the Coppers Stout.
I used to drink Guinness all the time, now it just seems like a glass of bland creamy pap. Regardless of how the Coppers outperforms it in every way, I'm convinced the Guinness recipe has changed. Am I imagining it? There seems to be no bitterness, no bite to it at all. It's almost like milkshake!

From memory they did drop the abv a few years back, not sure if that had anything to do with the change in character you noted.

 

[colliefish]

The stout that I love is coopers. I've recently done the below twice.
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56319

Once for a friend and once for myself. Mine is going to be bottled today but my mate has started his and loves it.
I've brewed previous coopers stouts with a can of coopers dme instead of sugar.