Wyeast problems. No activity for the second time.

[slimreaper]

Hi
What am I doing wrong? I am on my second foray into AG brewing. Both recipes have suggested Wyeast. The first was for a Kolsch, but I don't think I stored the yeast properly, and it did nothing until I added some mangrove jacks yeast after about 72 hours. It then fermented OK, but the beer tasted quite "dry" (even after 3 months in the bottle). I wrote this off and added to the "experience" column!

Second try. Brewing a IPA. Different strain of Wyeast (Ringwood). Stored properly this time. Used within 2 weeks of arrival. Brew day went well. Yeast pack swelled after breaking inner pack. Pitched at about 19 degrees. In brew fridge at 18.5 degrees. Absolutely no activity after 24-28 hours.Gave it a stir left overnight -nothing. Now am at about 40 hours. Gravity remains 1.058.

Do I wait longer? Do I cop out and add Mangrove Jacks again?
It is putting me off using wyeast to be honest.
Thanks
Andy

 

[strange-steve]

Did you make a starter with the yeast or just pitch it?

 

[slimreaper]

I just pitched it. The instructions said a starter was not needed.

 

[strange-steve]

It's best to make a starter with liquid yeast, the cell count drops pretty quickly, around 5 % a week. Did you notice how old the pack was? Even if it was brand new the cell count would be too low for a 1.058 beer, assuming a 20L batch.

That being said it's unusual that there is no activity after 40 hours. That Ringwood yeast can be a bit temperamental, I'd maybe crank up the heat to 20 ° to help it along. I used it recently and it was a slow starter for me also and when it did get going there was very little krausen. Give it some more time to see if it gets going.

 

[MyQul]

I just pitched it. The instructions said a starter was not needed.

Alway make a starter with liquid yeast. The instructions for not making a starter are really for American customers as they can get the yeast from the lab to their fridge in as short a time as a few hours.
Whereas here, the yeast has to travel from the states to the online shop then from the onlineshop to your fridge. You've got no idea how the yeast was treated during the travel time or what temps it was kept at

 

[slimreaper]

Thanks for the replies guys.
How long am I able to leave it for though before I should worry?
I might go out and buy some dry yeast as a just in case as its coming up to the weekend.
Thanks

 

[Simonh82]

I'd give it another day before panicking. I just had a similar issue with expired dried yeast on my last brew.

I chucked in some Wilko dried yeast that I had to spare but actually I think it was just a really long lag time for the yeast which I used initially.

If the yeast had reduced viability due to long storage and transportation times then it might take more time for fermentation to kick off. The fact that the pack swelled suggests there are still viable yeast so I'd suggest playing the waiting game.

As Steve suggests this yeast can be tricky. Graham Wheeler suggests despite the name/location its from it is actually a 'northern strain' which does well with regular rousing, even after fermentation has kicked off.

 

[DoctorMick]

Have you still got the packaging? Would be interesting to see what the manufactured date was.

 

[slimreaper]

Have you still got the packaging? Would be interesting to see what the manufactured date was.

I'll see if i've still got it.

So Mfg date = 5 July 2016.

 

[slimreaper]

I'd give it another day before panicking. I just had a similar issue with expired dried yeast on my last brew.

I chucked in some Wilko dried yeast that I had to spare but actually I think it was just a really long lag time for the yeast which I used initially.

If the yeast had reduced viability due to long storage and transportation times then it might take more time for fermentation to kick off. The fact that the pack swelled suggests there are still viable yeast so I'd suggest playing the waiting game.

As Steve suggests this yeast can be tricky. Graham Wheeler suggests despite the name/location its from it is actually a 'northern strain' which does well with regular rousing, even after fermentation has kicked off.

That is what I thought too. Fingers crossed I guess.

 

[strange-steve]

I'll see if i've still got it.

So Mfg date = 5 July 2016.

According to the brewer's friend calculator you'd be pitching about a 1/3 of the recommended yeast cells then which could cause the lag.

 

[slimreaper]

According to the brewer's friend calculator you'd be pitching about a 1/3 of the recommended yeast cells then which could cause the lag.

OK. Thanks.
Excuse my ignorance, does this mean it will just take longer to start/ferment, or it will not ferment to the desired Final Gravity?
I guess I am asking is it worth waiting, or do I need to do something?
If more yeast is required at some point, am I better going for a packet of dry (which I have a selection of), or order more of the same Wyeast which I will have to wait for delivery of (Probably next Tuesday).
Thanks for the help.

 

[Soton]

OK. Thanks.
Excuse my ignorance, does this mean it will just take longer to start/ferment, or it will not ferment to the desired Final Gravity?
I guess I am asking is it worth waiting, or do I need to do something?
If more yeast is required at some point, am I better going for a packet of dry (which I have a selection of), or order more of the same Wyeast which I will have to wait for delivery of (Probably next Tuesday).
Thanks for the help.

There could be a bit of a lag before it shows signs of proper fermentation due to you low yeast count when pitched, the yeast could of been stressed due to under pitching
If I was you I would purchase another of the same yeast and this time make a starter with it then pitch that

 

[Simonh82]

I suspect it will be fine as is. The default pitch rate on Brewer's friend and other yeast calculators is 0.75 millions yeast cells / per ml / per degree plato. This is the 'Pro brewer' pitching rate and a definitely a good idea. Saying that there is a standard pitch rate given by the yeast manufacturers of 0.35 millions yeast cells / per ml / per degree plato and you are only about 30% below that.

As some form of reassurance you could check out these two Brulosophy articles 1 & 2 .

Neither of them exactly replicate your situation but give you an idea that you can get away with really under pitching without awful consequences. Fingers crossed it will be the same for you but hopefully it shouldn't be worse than a long lag time and maybe somewhat slower ferment.

 

[slimreaper]

Thanks guys. I've ordered another pack of wyeast anyway. If nothing has happened by the time it comes, I will use that too.
On the upside, the wort tasted pretty good. :thumb:
Andy

 

[strange-steve]

I agree with Simonh it'll probably be fine, just a long lag time. I reckon you'll see signs of fermentation soon.

The effect of under pitching on the flavour of the beer probably won't be that drastic, maybe a little more estery, but for some styles, including an English style ale, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I actually purposely under pitched my competition saison by about 20% to encourage more ester production.

 

[slimreaper]

Panic over!
You guys are good :thumb:
Activity noted this morning (50 odd hours later).
Thanks for the support.
Andy

 

[DoctorMick]

Panic over!
You guys are good :thumb:
Activity noted this morning (50 odd hours later).
Thanks for the support.
Andy

Are you planning on reusing the yeast?

 

[strange-steve]

Glad to hear it's alive. My Ringwood bitter was probably somewhere close to that lag time and turned out pretty good.

 

[slimreaper]

Are you planning on reusing the yeast?

Probably not. I'm not that advanced yet!