Best Star SAN Alternative including all new Chemsan

[BradleyW]

Oxi cleaners are unlikely to taint anything..............

Yeah that's what I thought but I've had a few batches with a real medicinal taste. Not sure if its been infection or the Oxi. All part of the learning process I guess haha

 

[Deathstar]

Quick question re no-rinse.

I have some Chemsan arriving tomorrow, and plan to use it to sanitise wine bottles before we rack off the wife’s wine.
I understand that it’s no rinse, however do you need to ensure the bottles are dry internally before filling? If so, what is the easiest way to ensure their dry on the inside.

It’s our first dabble into the world of no-rinse rather than chlorine based products.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

A noobie myself - I made myself a bottle drain, two halves of floor panelling, with holes drilled and spaced by one bottle diameter apart, with legs to raise it up by a bit more than the neck length of a bottle. That fitted a couple of tea trays side by side, to catch the drips. It holds around 48 bottles. I put a gallon of Chemsan solution in a bucket, dunked each bottle, swilled the solution around, emptied back in the bucket then left upturned to drain.

As soon as all were done, I cracked on with the filling and capping, starting with the first one I had steralised. I didn't worry about ensuring they were perfectly dry.

 

[Turexy]

@foxy The proxitane (Peracetic Acid) seems like a very good solution, where do you source your stuff from if you don't mind sharing.
If you could also let us know what concentration you are getting and how do you dilute it for normal application, I'm sure lots of us would greatly appreciate it!

I've found "Peracetic Acid, Peroxyacetic Acid, (PAA) 15% - 5 Litres" for £31 delivered. Is this a good deal? I guest this amount would last a lifetime!?

 

[alsch890]

I don't wanna open a can of worms here but for about 30 brews now I have used Chemipro Oxi for cleaning and sanitising. My stockists list it as a sanitiser but having read this thread and gone down an Internet rabbit hole I see posts saying it's one or the other.

From my experience I've only had one infected brew. I think the reason was I took a sample without realising there was some mould around the tap and following that the mould got back washed in and voila, mouldy beer. Wondering if some different cleansing method would have prevented that mould?

 

[Drunkula]

do you need to ensure the bottles are dry internally before filling?

No. You might not have heard the saying "Don't fear the foam" so even if the bottle is full of sanitiser foam just fill it - it'll be fine. Some people have left 6 inches of star san in a fermenter and put beer in it and it still comes out fine.

 

[LeeH]

I wonder if Five Star are regretting not getting their finger out. The European market must be a good few percent of their revenue.

 

[Richie_asg1]

I suspect Brussels want a wad of cash before they issue the licence. That seems to be their usual MO.
Things may be about to change though with any luck.

 

[RichK]

I've gone down the econo-bleach & vinegar route with no ill effects. Just have to be a bit careful, to not produce chlorine gas

 

[Stib]

This was banned by the EU wasn't it?

 

[Drunkula]

This was banned by the EU wasn't it?

Just because of some import bureaucracy , not because of the composition.

 

[Max Brewer]

I've gone down the econo-bleach & vinegar route with no ill effects. Just have to be a bit careful, to not produce chlorine gas

+1 for hypochlorous acid never let me down over several years (& cheap as chips) !!!!!

 

[hedgerowpete]

So Chemsan is A blend of phosphoric acid, benzenesulfonic acid and isopropanol. The manufacturers site does not list it so I thought at 1st it would be a rebranded version of something else on there site but it looks like thats not the case either but there are 2 products they list that should do the same job which are this https://www.chemisphereuk.com/shop/shield-general-purpose-sanitiser which is alot more expensive though it doesn't give dilution rates but is a blend of citric acid, lactic acid and Alkylpolyglycosides. And this https://www.chemisphereuk.com/shop/tap-and-keg-sanitiser-for-dispense-system-taps-nozzles-connectors which looks like its ready mixed and has only a small amount of lactic acid and says "No need to rinse. Continues working for up to 24 hours even when dry."
So the question is could you use just lactic acid or just citric acid to sanitise? Could you use lemon juice if you don't mind a bit of lemon in your beer. Is there something about PH3 that anything that PH or lower could be used (some would obviously need rinsing).

I have not got to the full length of this posting but saw this and thought i can answer it. in the wine industry a well known chemist was called Prof, Gerry Fowles, he was also an excellenthome winemaker as well as chemisty genius and yeast master.
he always recommended that the old school steraliser of sodium meta sulf was enhanced with the 1ml per litre doses with 1ml per litre of citric acid. the meta sulf and sanitizing was enhanced with the greater aciditcy, 3ph is a good aiming point for most cleaners

 

[hedgerowpete]

If you were dunking it into water at that temp and leaving it there. Pouring some water in and swishing it will make the water cool quite quickly and as you swirl it around localised temperatures will plummet. Sanitisers cause cell wall problems so their either burst out or stuff can get in and kill them. Unless you've got a mad amount of hot water then it's not reliable, and heating that water will cost a lot more than star san.

could you notget the same effect with a wall paper steamer and pipeinjecting the steam into the inside of the bottles? a bit like a bottle washer but with steam

 

[GhostShip]

Is the Chemsan the same as Starsan in that in order to keep a mixed solution for any length of time, it needs to be mixed with very soft water? My water is quite hard, so would need to buy some bottled.

 

[BradleyW]

Boots baby sterilisation tablets for £1.99 a kick work just fine if you can't get your hands on some vwp or starsan - I had no problems with my last brew using those

Yeah I've been using baby sterilising stuff too, plus ethanol to spray on things and so far good!

 

[johncrobinson]

Citric acid will boost sulphite (for a short while) I do it but beware of the fumes.

 

[foxy]

@foxy The proxitane (Peracetic Acid) seems like a very good solution, where do you source your stuff from if you don't mind sharing.
If you could also let us know what concentration you are getting and how do you dilute it for normal application, I'm sure lots of us would greatly appreciate it!

I've found "Peracetic Acid, Peroxyacetic Acid, (PAA) 15% - 5 Litres" for £31 delivered. Is this a good deal? I guest this amount would last a lifetime!?

I am down under so my source would be no good to you, it is a good price, similar to what I pay in AUD it has to be kept in the fridge and in the dark, 10 ml to a litre of water pH doesn't matter. Won't last a lifetime 60 minutes after dilution, although after a couple of hours I have noticed it is still active.

 

[BradleyW]

Has anyone ever used the 10% Iodine solution that you can use to disinfect wounds? I know it will most likely dye plastic stuff brown but if you can live with that I guess it would be a viable alternative.

 

[marshbrewer]

I use Videne at 3ml per 2Lof water as a no rinse sanitiser, although I think you only officially need 1.25ml per L it's easier at 3ml/2L for me and seems to work well. It's iodine based. It's good and cheap at approx £12 for 500ml