Selling cider to pubs

[cornerstone]

Hope this is the right place to post. I have been brewing cider with a mate from scrumpy apples and currently have around 800 litres fermenting away in the garage of my house.

We'd like to sell most of it to local pubs who have expressed an interest, mainly as a trial run for next year when we aim to make a lot more (but still less than 7000l).

So my question is about legalities and tax (boring I know).

We don't currently have a registered business, we are just two individuals, so following advice from HMRC I sent a CP33 form to claim exemption from registration with the Name of Cider Maker as our names: Joe Bloggs and John Doe.

Question: I understand that we also have to register the premises (my garage at my house) with the local council's environmental health officer. Is that correct? It seems like I have to "register as a food business" in order to do that. Does that mean I have to register some kind of business (LTD/LLP) with companies house first.

Question: I realise that by claiming exemption from registration with HMRC means that we will not have to pay alcohol duty (until we sell 7000 litres). BUT do we have to pay regular income tax on the sales?

If you are a small cider maker selling cider make at your home, can you tell me what steps you are taking? I want to do the bare minimum required to be legitimate. I'd rather not register a small business unless absolutely necessary for either tax or council food standards reasons.

Thanks for any help.

 

[user 4004]

I to would like to know the answer to this, I spent a lot of time trying to find out last year, even asked local CAMRA branch and they did not really help, so I gave up and decided to start giving more of it away.

With out trying to hijack the thread does anyone know the legality of sending some to beer festivals?

 

[Featherhat]

As far as I know, anything produced commercially, for human consumption, has to meet certain hygiene standards. I have no idea about tax etc. but the council will want to inspect your premises

 

[CoxyBoy123]

I would suggest speaking to another producer. I am sure they would advise and even help you bottle if that the plan. If it's a one off they could pay the duty on your behalf and Gould just set up as an alcohol wholesaler of course paying the regular corporation tax :) I wouldn't worry about council food standards as that is taken care of by the other producer

One thing I have found since launching my brewery is that they are all there to help each other

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I know this is beer but imagine the red tape is just as bad for cider.

The MISERY OF BUREAUCRACY:

BREWING red tape demanded that Mr Shields:

• Register as a brewery
• Start to measure the alcohol content of his beer
• Record the amount of malt he buys
• Create a bonded warehouse in his shed
• Pay duty of 20p a bottle
• Obtain a personal licence to sell alcohol
• Go on a one-day course
• Have his criminal record checked by police
• Obtain a premises licence for the sale of beer
• Pin up notices outside the front of his house
• Take out newspaper advertisements

More - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4688385.display/

 

[cornerstone]

@Chippy_Tea: Actually due to history/tradition the laws on cider are different to beer. Something to do with encouraging farmers to preserve their ancient orchards by making it viable to sell small amounts of cider at their 'farm gate'.


@CoxyBoy123: I think this is a good idea. I know of a local cider maker who might be able to help.

@Snake_2586: To sell directly to the public at a festival you would have to fulfil all the requirements that I am asking about first. I.E register as a cider maker with form CP30 (or register exemption with form CP33) and then register with local council as a food business and get through their Environmental Health/Food Standards process. Then you would be able to sell to any personal licence holder (i.e. pubs). In addition to this, to sell directly to the public you would need to apply for a Temporary Event Notice (TEN) at your local council to allow you to carry out a 'licensable activity' at your event. Its £21 I think and you can do 5 per year.

So as I understand my original question now, as a small producer who has claimed exception, I would not be liable for Alcohol Duty (until I make 7000 litres) but would be liable for income tax (and corporation tax if LTD) on any profits. Not too bad as my wife can be the owner and use her tax free allowance.

I would also have to register as a Food Business (indicating that I would need to register some form of business with Companies House - probably a sole trader/LLP) and allow them to inspect the premises, show brewing records and produce a HACCP plan showing how we ensure sanitary conditions, etc, etc. A template can be found here:

http://www.ciderworkshop.com/files/HACCP Plan Craft Cider v1 (2).doc

Once all that is done I could sell to pubs or get a TEN and sell to the public at up to 5 one-off events per year, paying income tax on any profits.