What The Hell Are The Police Doing

[Kevin Falconer]

I have thought that if I caught a burglar I'd knock him out. When he came round I'd have him tied to a chair on a big tarp and act like I was a sadistic serial killer who had done away with burglars before

 

[Pavros]

Do you actually believe that you should be allowed to kill anyone who tries to steal your stuff?

No, and I haven't actually said that so stop putting words into my mouth.
I am just trying to see where people draw the line as to what is acceptable.

I'm still not sure where you draw the line other than not killing someone as your comment of putting someone down and they don't come back up is ambiguous. Would you condone rendering a burglar unconscious or just hitting them until they have had enough and curl up into a ball on the ground? How do you know when they have had enough? Everyone reacts differently in these situations and this is why it's a big grey area and a legal minefield.

 

[Thumper]

He has been arrested on suspicion of murder?
I thought murder had to be premeditated?

Nope. Murder is the killing if another person with the intent to cause either death or serious injury. The "intent" part used to be termed "malice aforethought" but it was changed because that phrasing causes exactly the sort of confusion we have here.

If you intend to kill or seriously injure someone, and you kill them, then it's murder.

 

[GhostShip]

The 78-year old gentleman has been bailed until May.

 

[Pavros]

Link to article on the BBC news website today setting out your rights in defending yourself in your home
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43652308

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Do you actually believe that you should be allowed to kill anyone who tries to steal your stuff?

My view is if you are defending your family and you hit the scum with something not intending to kill them and they die later you should not face murder charges.

 

[Kevin Falconer]

This goes back to my earlier statement about being protected by the society you live in. Law is not a buffet, where you get to pick and choose which you agree with. Can you break into someone's house but then cry "foul" if you get badly hurt by the homeowner?

 

[GerritT]

I guess you just have to hide in your bedroom and hope that they're not those that like to beat the **** out of the homeowner just because, or set fire to your house because stealing your **** is not quite enough.

Actually, that is the solution that keeps most people alive. Because most burglars tend not to beat home owners up, or set fire to houses.

 

[GerritT]

View attachment 13309 Can you break into someone's house but then cry "foul" if you get badly hurt by the homeowner?

Yes. And the judges will decide if it was a foul or if it was reasonable force. Homeowners aren't judges. We're not in Kansas anymore.

 

[Kevin Falconer]

Actually, that is the solution that keeps most people alive. Because most burglars tend not to beat home owners up, or set fire to houses.

Emphasis on the "most". I know what my luck's like.

 

[Alex.mc]

Forgive my paraphrasing, but the law is concerned with "reasonable force"
If someone breaks nto your home and attempts to steal your TV, then it's not reasonable to hit them with a baseball bat until they are dead. If he lunges at you with a knife it's reasonable to hit him with a baseball bat to disarm or dissuade home, and potentially reasonable to then physically detain him in a safe manner until the police arrive.
Got to remember this is the daily Mail! Well known for twisting truth for their own ends.
The pensioner may have lashed out at him once and hit a major organ or blood vessel. It's quite possible to fail to kill someone with 50 stabs, and possible to kill someone with a single low effort stab.

 

[Kevin Falconer]

I'm not suggesting we kill burglars. I'm pointing out that scumbags who can't be bothered to do a day's work and just want to take stuff that other people have worked for (also bear in mind most of these crimes are against working class people, not millionaire MPs) then I think they have got a screw loose if they then think it's OK to complain that you hurt them whilst they were doing it. I remember the old stories about burglars suing cos they tripped over loose carpets. Old wives tales? I wouldn't want to bet on it.

 

[Saisonator]

Forgive my paraphrasing, but the law is concerned with "reasonable force"
If someone breaks nto your home and attempts to steal your TV, then it's not reasonable to hit them with a baseball bat until they are dead. If he lunges at you with a knife it's reasonable to hit him with a baseball bat to disarm or dissuade home, and potentially reasonable to then physically detain him in a safe manner until the police arrive.
Got to remember this is the daily Mail! Well known for twisting truth for their own ends.
The pensioner may have lashed out at him once and hit a major organ or blood vessel. It's quite possible to fail to kill someone with 50 stabs, and possible to kill someone with a single low effort stab.

Show me any news media that does not twist the truth or choose to sit on or release stories that fit their narrative?

 

[Kevin Falconer]

Show me any news media that does not twist the truth or choose to sit on or release stories that fit their narrative?

Because they all work for government or government funders.

 

[Alex.mc]

True enough...... Its just that the Daily Mail is particularly bad.
20 years ago a friend of mine resigned as a reporter for them, as they'd entirely rewritten an article he wrote on his old schoolfriend the actress Kate Winslet. He'd written it as a general interview on he then growing film career, and they totally rewrote it as a hatchet job on her. I saw both copies, his and what they printed, and you wouldn't believe the difference! When he resigned he handed her all the material and evidence of what they did, but she didn't pursue it. Taking on the big press is a very expensive task.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If someone breaks nto your home and attempts to steal your TV, then it's not reasonable to hit them with a baseball bat until they are dead. If he lunges at you with a knife it's reasonable to hit him with a baseball bat to disarm or dissuade home, and potentially reasonable to then physically detain him in a safe manner until the police arrive.

If someone came into my house and i was upstairs i would probably do as has been suggested and shout that the police were on the way, if i caught the scum in the act i would not wait to see if they were going to run or have a go i would be in first with whatever came to hand.

 

[Clint]

A few well placed jumps off the dining room table onto a detained suspect wouldn't get frowned upon...I'm sure people would understand.

 

[GerritT]

A few well placed jumps off the dining room table onto a detained suspect wouldn't get frowned upon...I'm sure people would understand.

The fact that people understand doesn't make it legal.

 

[Ajhutch]

Everyone who has seen Legally Blonde (or who has, you know, studied either law or ancient philosophy) knows the Aristotle quote “the law is reason free from passion”. To paraphrase, if you’re ever up in front of a judge and your defence is based on what you think the law should be, rather than what it is, then you’ve got a problem.

Edit to add this link, this person always provides good, easy to read, analysis

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/05/bashing-burglars-and-the-law-of-self-defence/

 

[Thumper]

Edit to add this link, this person always provides good, easy to read, analysis

That's an excellent summary, well worth a read. Thanks for sharing.