Mid-boil hop additions

Sandimas · Aug 13, 2016

I'm fine with the concept of adding hops at the start and end of the boil, and steeping, but what about mid-boil - how do you work out what to add and when to add it? I've used brewing software and seen the effect, but there must be something subtle about deciding whether to add at the 20 or 30 min point?

Just did a kit recipe with hop additions at 60min, 20min and 5min. The 20min hop quantity was more than the 60min, though it was un-labelled so I don't know if they were different hops.

Dutto · Aug 14, 2016

Hmmm!

I may very well be wrong (it happens quite often) but I have always thought that "long boil" hops gave me the bitterness in the beer and as I added more hops during the boiling process I was getting less of the bitterness and more of the hop taste and aroma; finishing at the "flame-out" stage where I mostly got hop aroma.

I used this system for many years (because I had never heard of cold hopping) and it is probably still the safest way of introducing a strong hop taste and aroma into a beer, be it an AG or an extract brew.

With regard to "... how do you work out what to add and when to add it?" I think all kits and most recipes are based on experimentation and in many cases a replication of what is done in the main brewery.

Hope this helps and hope I'm correct! :whistle:

MarkBowie · Aug 14, 2016

I only know from reading this yesterday in an interview with a head brewer... She said that she adds the hops at different intervals dependent on their potential. As in pure bittering hops at the start, aroma hops at the end and hybrids in between dependent on trial and error of what they provide. Probably not much help but that's all I know!

Grizzly299 · Aug 14, 2016

I have always worked on this;

Early Boil- Bittering>Flavour
Mid Boil-Bittering >Flavour
Mid to late Boil- Flavour & Bittering balance
Late Boil- Flavour>Bittering

*Bunching flavour and aroma, as IMO the aroma is pretty much how it tastes.

Some Dual purpose hops can give more harsh bittering when used for the full boil length.

MyQul · Aug 14, 2016

Grizzly299 said:
I have always worked on this;

Early Boil- Bittering>Flavour
Mid Boil-Bittering >Flavour
Mid to late Boil- Flavour & Bittering balance
Late Boil- Flavour>Bittering

*Bunching flavour and aroma, as IMO the aroma is pretty much how it tastes.

Some Dual purpose hops can give more harsh bittering when used for the full boil length.

Something I learned recently is to look for hops with a low cohumulone level as this is what determines whether bittering will be smooth or harsh. I've started to use simcoe as my go to bittering hop as it only has 15%-20% cohumulone and has a high alpha acid level so you dont need loads

Simonh82 · Aug 14, 2016

MyQul said:
Something I learned recently is to look for hops with a low cohumulone level as this is what determines whether bittering will be smooth or harsh. I've started to use simcoe as my go to bittering hop as it only has 15%-20% cohumulone and has a high alpha acid level so you dont need loads

I think it depends what you are after. I have also read about the cohumulone level effecting the type of bittering but for my IPA type beers I like the really cutting bitterness that a hop like chinook gives.

I also think the bitterness changes as the beer ages. I brewed a Belgian IPA which had about 80 IBUs, much of them from chinook. When it was very new it was really quite harsh but after a couple of months it has smoothed right out.

MyQul · Aug 15, 2016

Simonh82 said:
I think it depends what you are after. I have also read about the cohumulone level effecting the type of bittering but for my IPA type beers I like the really cutting bitterness that a hop like chinook gives.

I also think the bitterness changes as the beer ages. I brewed a Belgian IPA which had about 80 IBUs, much of them from chinook. When it was very new it was really quite harsh but after a couple of months it has smoothed right out.

Deffo agree with both your points. I generally look for a smooth bitternes as like to make pseudo lagers/pale ales which benefit from smooth bittering. But I can see how you might want something more agressive in such a hop forward beer like an IPA

chuffer · Aug 15, 2016

From what I've picked up reading round lately my strategy is to use a brew calc to determine how much bittering hops to use at the start of the boil to get the desired IBU. Then I add a much larger dose of hops at 10mins and 0mins to maximise flavour/aroma (I also dry hop) without increasing the bitterness

MyQul · Aug 15, 2016

chuffer said:
From what I've picked up reading round lately my strategy is to use a brew calc to determine how much bittering hops to use at the start of the boil to get the desired IBU. Then I add a much larger dose of hops at 10mins and 0mins to maximise flavour/aroma (I also dry hop) without increasing the bitterness

I do exactly this too, minus the dry hop, but I plan on starting to add hop teas at bottling time too instead. I used to do a hop tea or a late addition but I think I'll have a go at doing both to see what effect it has

Dutto · Aug 16, 2016

MyQul said:
Something I learned recently ...... low cohumulone level ....... .......... it only has 15%-20% cohumulone .............

Thanks for that! :thumb:

I have now learned that I mustn't use anything that I can't pronounce after four beers! :whistle::whistle:

Flatline9 · Aug 23, 2016

MyQul said:
Something I learned recently is to look for hops with a low cohumulone level as this is what determines whether bittering will be smooth or harsh. I've started to use simcoe as my go to bittering hop as it only has 15%-20% cohumulone and has a high alpha acid level so you dont need loads

Just come across this in Fix's "Principles of brewing science". Cohumulone has one less carbon atom than humulone and adhumulone making it more soluble than them during the boil. So you could still dry hop with high cohumulone hops to get the desired aroma from them without the harsh bitterness of using them in a boil.

Flatline9 · Aug 24, 2016

Simonh82 said:
for my IPA type beers I like the really cutting bitterness that a hop like chinook gives.

Just read some more and apparently isocohumulone (cohumulone after it's been boiled and become soluble), which gives the harsh bitterness, is transformed into milder products throughout the boil. So if you are using high cohumulone hops, a FWH addition will give time for this transformation, whereas late hop additions won't give sufficient time for this transformation and this is what causes the harsh bitterness.

rodwha · Aug 30, 2016

There are some who feel this chart is bogus, and I believe that all the hops vary to a degree on when they're at their peak for flavor and aroma. Regardless I have changed my hop schedule due to this chart and drop my flavoring hops at 21 mins and aroma hops at 7 mins.

Simonh82 · Aug 31, 2016

Flatline9 said:
Just read some more and apparently isocohumulone (cohumulone after it's been boiled and become soluble), which gives the harsh bitterness, is transformed into milder products throughout the boil. So if you are using high cohumulone hops, a FWH addition will give time for this transformation, whereas late hop additions won't give sufficient time for this transformation and this is what causes the harsh bitterness.

This is interesting and backed up by my recent experience. With the Belgian IPA I used chinook both early and late in the boil. That had a definite tang to the bitterness which smoothed out with age.

I've just brewed a rye session IPA which I also bittered to 70 IBU with chinook, hoping for a similar cutting bitterness. I only used the chinook as a first wort hop and it had over 90 minutes in the kettle before flameout. Despite the high bitterness for a pretty weak beer, it has none of the harshness that the Belgian beer had, even tasting samples from the FV.

Flatline9 · Aug 31, 2016

Simonh82 said:
This is interesting and backed up by my recent experience. With the Belgian IPA I used chinook both early and late in the boil. That had a definite tang to the bitterness which smoothed out with age.

I've just brewed a rye session IPA which I also bittered to 70 IBU with chinook, hoping for a similar cutting bitterness. I only used the chinook as a first wort hop and it had over 90 minutes in the kettle before flameout. Despite the high bitterness for a pretty weak beer, it has none of the harshness that the Belgian beer had, even tasting samples from the FV.

Always good to know that brewing "science" can be backed up with homebrewing results!

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