Kronos
Well-Known Member
How long do you leave the hops added at turn off/flame out before you start chilling the wort and transferring to a FV.
Adding hops at turn off/flame out
- Thread starter Kronos
- Start date
Help Support The Homebrew Forum:
Wouter
Well-Known Member
You just immediately start chilling.
Or what some people do is they chill to 80 degrees and then add the flame out hop and continue to chill.
There is no reason to remove any of the hops at any stage.
Or what some people do is they chill to 80 degrees and then add the flame out hop and continue to chill.
There is no reason to remove any of the hops at any stage.
Rambling response, due to slight inebriation, but:
- The point of flame out hops is to retain all of the flavour and most of the aroma oils, so no time is the sort of answer, but
- Chilling to below 80C before adding the last hop addition ensures that no further bittering occurs, so this would really be the time for the flame out hop addition
- Post boil hop additions via dry hopping or hop teas may be a better method, but they are an unwanted mid-week task involving a lot more time than a simple "chuck" on brew day
Kronos
Well-Known Member
Chilling to 80c is something I have not tried but will do on my next brew, thank you.
Wouter
Well-Known Member
Also it tastes different!
Kronos
Well-Known Member
So drop wort to 80c, add flame out hops and then whirlpool?
You do seem, from your very interesting posts, to be a very experienced and informed brewer, Wouter, so may I ask you to expand on this observation, based on your own beers please?
For my part, dry hopping never seemed to really do as much as expected and involved piddling around with marbles and such. Hop teas seem to give a rather cloudy effect, though less faff than a dry hop.
ACBEV
Old Member
I don't bother with dry hopping, flame out or mid chilling faffing about. My last hop additions are between 15 to 5 minutes and I get plenty of hop aroma/taste, with marginal bittering. My last but one brew, a 12 IBU mild had 5g of goldings at 15 minutes... Has a distinct goldings spicy taste and aroma .
Hi!
One of the principal hop oils, myrcene, has a boiling point of 65°C, so most of the aroma and flavour derived from myrcene is going to disappear if hops are added at 80°C.
There are many hop varieties that are low in myrcene, of course, but those varieties that are high in myrcene need to be added after the temperature has dropped below 65°C.
The other factor to consider is this- how much flavour/aroma is stripped out during fermentation?
One of the principal hop oils, myrcene, has a boiling point of 65°C, so most of the aroma and flavour derived from myrcene is going to disappear if hops are added at 80°C.
There are many hop varieties that are low in myrcene, of course, but those varieties that are high in myrcene need to be added after the temperature has dropped below 65°C.
The other factor to consider is this- how much flavour/aroma is stripped out during fermentation?
Last edited:
I think its worth holding the wort at 80C for half an hour or so to give the oils a chance to get into solution - this article gives a good overview https://beerandbrewing.com/the-best-way-to-use-whirlpool-hops-in-homebrew/
According to several references found on tinterweb , including Haynes Handbook, Myrcene has a BP of 167*C. If this is the case there will be some loss by evaporation below 100*C but not total loss, unless the wort is kept at temperature for a significant time.
Who's been putting hop oil in their mk 2 escorts. ...?
Hi!
There must be some duff info out there - I got mine from the BeerSmith blog.
Many articles refer to myrcene as volatile at all temperatures.
One data sheet puts the Latent Heat of Vaporisation at 28°C.
Last edited:
Saisonator
Landlord.
I have come to the conclusion that it's a bit trial and error.
My next IPA may well include flame out, 80c whirlpool and dry hopping.
My next IPA may well include flame out, 80c whirlpool and dry hopping.
Wouter
Well-Known Member
Thank you! Less then I would want to be, never enough time to brew.
My own observations are limited, don't do the flame out hop alone often. Personally I would say it is a less "fresh" flavour and aroma. A sort of warmer hop intensity (whatever that means).
Brulosophy tested hop stand (leaving the hop in for 20 min at 74C), which I would say is a form of flame out hop? People could clearly tell the beers apart, one of the most significant results of brulospophy to this day.
But of course such a technique has been tested long before they were around.
I was told that it was systematically researched and published in Brauwelt a few years ago. They found the flame out hop to give more of a "green" flavour. Unfortunately I have not been able to find this article, possibly because it was in German.
Some people note that flame out hop flavour remains longer in the beer than dry hop flavours.
All together, there simply is a difference because it is a different technique. With a flame out hop you try to extract everything from the hop while minimising loss of aroma's and creating no bitterness due to a lower but still warm temperature. While with dry hop you try to extract only certain flavours/aroma's from the hop.
And depending on what you try to achieve you can do one or both.
Thanks for this, Wouter, much appreciated.
Brauwelt, you say. May try to have a look myself.
Well that was interesting, as apparently 2.1% of all household spending in South Africa is on beer. I found out exactly zip on flame out hops, though.
Brauwelt, you say. May try to have a look myself.
Well that was interesting, as apparently 2.1% of all household spending in South Africa is on beer. I found out exactly zip on flame out hops, though.
Wouter
Well-Known Member
Yeah I couldn't find it either. It probably was in German which I don't speak. I mailed one of the guys who read and discussed it at the Dutch forum. Maybe he knows where to find it or has it.
My experience is that I get the best "late hopped" taste by cooling to 80C before adding. I tried adding pellets at 100C and got a big bittering effect. Leaf gave an unpredictable increase in bittering at 100C with a steep. At 80C I can add pellets and continue to chill. With leaf I'll give them 10 minutes or so to steep to get the flavour out. I filter the debris out before it goes into the FV, though I have tried leaving the hops in like you do with Tiny Rebels Cwtch. This changed the flavour but not for the better in my opinion.
Similar threads
