Belgian beer, is it all it's cracked up to be?

[An Ankoù]

Gax Posted -

I'm planning a series of 5 or so SMASH(Y) beers to get to know some of the more common ingredients in the styles of beer I enjoy before having a go at one of my more favourite styles.

I think you'll find beer making is more forgiving than cooking in a restaurant. Your approach of limiting the variable and getting to know you ingredients is sound, though. I'd choose a fairly neutral yeast and stick with it for your first recipes. You can make a lot of different styes with a single yeast, in fact.
What are your favourite styes, then? Glad to see you;re using proper, English spelling, by the way (and I don't mean ingrediants).

 

[Jim Brewster]

Sounds like a good plan! The basics aren't difficult at all once you get stuck in, you'll be in your element

 

[Gax]

I think you'll find beer making is more forgiving than cooking in a restaurant. Your approach of limiting the variable and getting to know you ingredients is sound, though. I'd choose a fairly neutral yeast and stick with it for your first recipes. You can make a lot of different styes with a single yeast, in fact.
What are your favourite styes, then? Glad to see you;re using proper, English spelling, by the way (and I don't mean ingrediants).

I do my best, haha. I've tried really hard since leave the states to assimilate to the North of England. For styles, I'm all over the place.

The Belgians will always hold a special place in my heart, having been responsible for snapping me out of the American Macro Market. All indications are though that those beers are buy and large "advanced" recipes and it will be awhile before I throw my hat into that particular ring.

I'm really into bitters, porters, dark mild, brown and red ales at the minute. The soft goal I've set for myself after doing some SMASH is to have a go at Irish Red Ale. Then I'll see how I've felt about the hobby and if investing more is going to work for me.

 

[Gax]

Sounds like a good plan! The basics aren't difficult at all once you get stuck in, you'll be in your element

Thanks buddy. :)

 

[An Ankoù]

The Belgians will always hold a special place in my heart, having been responsible for snapping me out of the American Macro Market. All indications are though that those beers are buy and large "advanced" recipes and it will be awhile before I throw my hat into that particular ring.

I think they're into a different drinking experience altogether. The strong one's are for sipping. At about 8-10 % you won't get many pints down before you fall over. The sour ones, Lambics, strange brown ales, beer brewed with alien life-forms are my favourites- they're gorgeous, but not for an evening's drinking session. The ones that try to copy English styles like Taras Boulba, for example, generally fail. I reckon a night out on the Belgians is as different from "a proper pint" as a night out on the wine; lovely, but unbecoming of a self-respecting Mancunian.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I think they're into a different drinking experience altogether. The strong one's are for sipping. At about 8-10 % you won't get any pints down before you fall over. The sour ones, Lambics, strange brown ales, beer brewed with alien life-forms are my favourites- they're gorgeous, but not for an evening;s drinking session. The ones that try to copy English styles like Taras Boulba, for example, generally fail. I reckon a night out on the Belgians is as different from "a proper pint" as a night out on the wine; lovely, but unbecoming of a self-respecting Mancunian.

Taras Boulba is one of the finest beers out there. I'll not hear a bad word against it.

 

[An Ankoù]

Taras Boulba is one of the finest beers out there. I'll not hear a bad word against it.

I ordered a dozen on the say-so of people like you. I've struggled with 4 and you're welcome to the rest. It's one of the most unbalanced beers I've ever had the misfortune to drink. Wouldn't even drink it at Hallowe'en.

Of course, I know the weight of opinion is against me, but I really don't see why this beer is so popular.
Perhaps I'd better try another.
Only 7 left @Brew_DD2 !

 

[samale]

I ordered a dozen on the say-so of people like you. I've struggled with 4 and you're welcome to the rest. It's one of the most unbalanced beers I've ever had the misfortune to drink. Wouldn't even drink it at Hallowe'en.

Of course, I know the weight of opinion is against me, but I really don't see why this beer is so popular.
Perhaps I'd better try another.
Only 7 left @Brew_DD2 !

Wash you're mouth out
Taras is a quality beer

 

[An Ankoù]

Wash you're mouth out
Taras is a quality beer

Just washed it out, thank you, with a gobfull of said Taras. I don't think we're talking about the same beer since I need now need is a vindaloo to clean up my palate.
This is what I'm drinking:

How bad is it?
If I'd ordered it in a pub, I'd drink it and look for a different beer,
If it was the only beer in the pub, I'd look for another pub.
If there were no other pubs, I'd order a second and a third... and drink it all night.

 

[Sadfield]

The ones that try to copy English styles like Taras Boulba,

Except that they don't. Taras isn't an English Bitter, there's nothing english about any of the ingredients in it. They just wanted something pale, light and refreshing to drink at the end of a brew day.

 

[Gax]

I've posted what I've come up with for a series of smash beers in the recipe discussion forum. Lemme know what you think.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Just washed it out, thank you, with a gobfull of said Taras. I don't think we're talking about the same beer since I need now need is a vindaloo to clean up my palate.
This is what I'm drinking:

View attachment 94744

How bad is it?
If I'd ordered it in a pub, I'd drink it and look for a different beer,
If it was the only beer in the pub, I'd look for another pub.
If there were no other pubs, I'd order a second and a third... and drink it all night.

Next you'll be telling me you don't like De Ranke XX Bitter, or De La Senne Zinnebir.

 

[An Ankoù]

I've never tasted Zinnebir. I'll look out for it.
XX Bitter I have tasted. Nothing memorable, though. Perhaps I should try it again.

 

[An Ankoù]

Except that they don't. Taras isn't an English Bitter, there's nothing english about any of the ingredients in it. They just wanted something pale, light and refreshing to drink at the end of a brew day.

Thank the gods for that. And may they enjoy it!

 

[An Ankoù]

Except that they don't. Taras isn't an English Bitter, there's nothing english about any of the ingredients in it. They just wanted something pale, light and refreshing to drink at the end of a brew day.

How do you know that? Alworth thinks there's a bit of a hankering for the cask bitter in there, but not the ingredients, as you say.
https://allaboutbeer.com/article/taras-boulba/

 

[Sadfield]

How do you know that? Alworth thinks there's a bit of a hankering for the cask bitter in there, but not the ingredients, as you say.
https://allaboutbeer.com/article/taras-boulba/

Hearing his influences and philosophy at a meet the brewer event, Port Street Beer House, Manchester c2003. Sure he likes cask beer, and Taras reflects that in being pale, bitter and low abv (in the context of modern Belgian brewing). However, as the title of your linked article says, Taras Boulba : Delightfully Belgian, with Yvan De Baets saying "“If I have one beer style that is my favorite ever, it’s a good English bitter properly served from the cask. Taras could be seen as a Belgian version of that.” and Alworth saying "If in your mind’s eye you are imagining a pint of creamy, low-carbonation bitter with an herbal continental aroma you are … nowhere near the mark".

As he says in this article, "influence should lead us to get inspired while making our own things, not to basically copy".

https://beerandbrewing.com/pick-6-yvan-de-baets-of-brasserie-de-la-senne-is-under-the-influence/

 

[An Ankoù]

Well, that's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but I'm not convinced that a brewer who loves a style isn't going to have a go and give it his best shot. His last word, above, is the ultimate sour grapes (thank you Gladfield). Cask ale isn't easy to make. It's an entirely different mindset to brewing continental ales. If familiarity breeds a degree of contempt then our delight in all things "foreign" whether it be NEIPA or Belgian gut rot (and I have the greatest respect for MANY Belgian beers, but some are awful) is evidence of this. In my opinion, English cask ales should be on the UNESCO Food Heritage list (maybe it is). TB is an awful beer. It tastes like a less-than-fully-stable beery wash bittered with a chemical bittering agent and finished with a few drops of citronella oil. If I had brewed it I don't think I would finish drinking the batch. But that's my opinion and the weight of opinion against me makes me think I haven't had it at it's best. I'm going to go to Brussels this summer and I'll take the opportunity to drink the stuff on draught. I'm only too aware of the difference between draught and bottled Summer Lightning, for example.
So, while we're de-consecrating sacred cows and advising the Emperor of the transparency of his new clothes, let's give some of Thiriez' offerings. a run for their money. And while we're at it, a sober, rather than Morton's hysterical, look at Westvleteren 12.
But that's for later as the week's work needs to get started.

 

[An Ankoù]

@The Baron
We've unintentionally hijacked a newcomer's thread. Perhaps some of this stuff could be moved to a new thread: Belgian beer, is it all it's cracked up to be?
Or something similarly contentious.

 

[Sadfield]

You know it's OK to just not to like something.

I suppose, but I'm not convinced that a brewer who loves a style isn't going to have a go and give it his best shot.

I've this glass from Tilquin's English Beer Festival 2016. I'm pretty sure they've not attempted a Bitter. Have you made a Gueuze? Or, is that a one way argument?

English cask ales should be on the UNESCO Food Heritage list

Agree. It's being campaigned for.

Not sure of its relevance here given none of the egregious beers claim in any way to be English cask ale.

Is Belgian beer all it's cracked up to be? Hell yes. Is all of good? No. However, a lot of it is beautifully idiosyncratic, which I'd take over the gallons of unoriginal, poor quality cask and smooth pour that exists.

 

[An Ankoù]

Have you made a Gueuze?

It's Lambic, Sadfield, Lambic's about brewing and gueuze is about blending.
No I haven't and I do like these beers. I see both Whitelabs and Wyeast do a suitable sac/bac mix. Blending old and young lambics sounds fun. I'm off to Belgium in the Summer or Autumn so a bit of research will stop time weighing on my hands.