Cider not doing anything...

[Flat Foot]

Hi all,

Brewed some cider with no problems last year, and since have moved on to brewing all grain and various fruit wines. No major issues.

On 23rd and 24th Oct I scratted and pressed my apples and got about 40l of juice, put into two containers.

On the 24th I added campden tablets to each, and on the 25th I pitched my yeast. Starting gravity was around 1.042 in each.

One container is in my airing cupboard, another has a brew belt around it. Both have been kept at around 20 to 22 degrees C.

After a few days I noticed a lack of activity. I realised I hadn't added any yeast nutrient, so added some and gave it all a stir, then resolved to leaving it be. I figured maybe a combination of a good stir and some nutrient may kick start things.

Fast forward to last week (so about nine days after pitching the yeast) I take a hydrometer reading and realise that neither container have done anything at all.

After reading a few threads on here I decided there was no harm in trying to repitch some more yeast, so did this on Friday 5th. I again resolved to try and do nothing for a few days, but looking today there's still no sign of any activity.

Just wondering if anyone had any clever ideas for me!

 

[Dads_Ale]

Did you cover/seal the containers after adding the campden tablet?
looks like you need to have them unsealed so as the sulpher dioxide produced can escape otherwise it might inhibit the yeast?
I'm no cider maker and googled the above info so may be wide of the mark.

 

[Flat Foot]

I did actually... maybe putting a cloth over the top isn't a bad idea

 

[franana]

Silly question maybe but shouldn't that stuff fly right out of an airlock?

 

[Harbey]

Could it be the campden tablet has killed the yeast off? Worth pitching some more I would have thought.

 

[Flat Foot]

Silly question maybe but shouldn't that stuff fly right out of an airlock?

If it works, I'm guessing not enough pressure to push its way through? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Could it be the campden tablet has killed the yeast off? Worth pitching some more I would have thought.

I did on Friday. Resolved to not do anything a good 72 hours but it's still just staring at me.

They're currently each sitting with a muslin cloth over the top of them. At the moment I'll try anything! (Well, most things)

 

[franana]

If it's SO2 suppressing the fermentation it might be worth flushing the headspace out, could be that it's just sitting on top and diffused in the liquid and so it's hampering the fermentation which means there's no CO2 generated that could flush it out?

Something else that might be worth trying is just applying some mechanical splashing action to degas if it was in fact diffused in the liquid.

 

[Shirley Bassett]

What rate did you add the Campden Tablets?

I normally add 1 crushed tablet to 5 litres of apple juice.

I do this to the juice as I add it to my fermentation vessel, which I cap with an airlock.

i, like you, leave it for 24 hours before I add the cider yeast.

I’ve fermented with and without yeast nutrient.

My previous house had a boiler room within the garage and that was around 20+C. My current house has a cupboard that contains the underfloor hearing manifold. That area is warm, but I don’t know the temperature.

My previous neighbour used to ferment his pressed juice in his garage, that he reckoned was about 10C. So I think cider yeast is quite forgiving when it comes to temperature.

So unless you‘ve over sulphited it, then I’m a bit stumped as to why it won’t start fermenting.

 

[Flat Foot]

Yes, same rate as you

 

[johncrobinson]

Well I never add campden at the start of fermentation,I prefer to pastuerise juice collected from berries from the wild.
Try pitching an active starter made with carton apple juice

 

[Flat Foot]

After giving it some more thought I started to wonder if I added too much campden tablets after all. A bit of internet searching and referring to what that would look like back in relation to my juice made me relatively sure, for example it was crystal clear and didn't look like it did when I pressed it. A silly mistake considering I have 12 months experience now and done lots of country wines, ciders and grain brews. But c'est la vie. I think I got something wrong in my conversion. On the plus side it seemed well preserved....

I purchased some hydrogen peroxide, worked out what I thought my excess was, put my calculations into the calculator here Winemaking Calculations, lopped a bit off to take account of the time that had passed and the fact I'd sloshed it around a bit. Decided to proceed cautiously (figuring I could add more but couldn't take out too much), so lopped a bit more off, gave it a stir and left it an hour or so and pitched some yeast.

Next day saw something that looked like it could be activity, but this then subsided.

So whilst leaving the first as 'wait and see', for the second batch I decided to shoot for the moon. Added what I assumed was the full amount of hydrogen peroxide required, then used a wine whip to give it a good mix. Popped a muslin over it and left it 24 hours to really give it time to rest. Next morning it still looked like it had just been pressed, rather than clear. Pitched some yeast last night. Checked it this morning like an excited kid at Christmas and it's got a very positive looking foam on top. Fingers crossed.

 

[Flat Foot]

Update...

Bucket one in the airing cupboard has been doing stuff, albeit not making too big a fuss about it.

Bucket two with the brew belt decided to be even more understated, then tonight after draining the central heating and changing out some TRV valves and lockshield valves today my wife says with a panic "what's that noise" and starts running around assuming something I've done is now flooding the house.

No, it's just bucket two has decided to take off with a vengeance....

 

[franana]

I find the bubbling of an airlock oddly rewarding, signs of good things to come! Very excited these are going now

 

[Stevieboy]

That's a relief eh? So that's nearly a month after pressing ?....

 

[Flat Foot]

I find the bubbling of an airlock oddly rewarding, signs of good things to come! Very excited these are going now

Yes, I've been doing this for just about a year now for ciders, wines, extract kits and an all grain brew but I still get excited when I see the signs of fermentation. Whether that's the bubbling of an airlock or just tell tell foam/krausen on the top of the fermenter.

That's a relief eh? So that's nearly a month after pressing ?....

A massive relief! Yes scratted and pressed the weekend of the 23rd October. All is looking well so far. As I said, it seems the ridiculous amount of sulphites did at least preserve it well...

Looking to move to my carboy and demijohns in the next day or so.

 

[franana]

I hope the sulphites don't affect the taste too much, I've got more experience with mead but there it was possible to age it out.

 

[Flat Foot]

Yes me too, I was going to have a sample when I move it to see. I'm no chemist (that's my brother's forte) but if I understand the chemical equation I should be ok.

And it'll be maturing well into next year anyway, I've only just bottled the last of last years!

 

[franana]

I will say hearing the phrase "Why does it smell like a Rhino farted in here" from my wife when I opened a bottle of sulphite ailed cyser had me in stitches, but if you let it degas it was actually quite tasty.

 

[An Ankoù]

Just picked the rest of the apples that were still hanging around as I want to get stuck into a bit of pruning. Pressed about 15 litres. I know, but I can't see good apples go to waste. I fully expect it to be galloping away by the morning.
I don't sulphite. I have a bucket of water with a couple of teaspoons of Na MBS and I rinse the apples there before chopping them for the scratter. There's enough SO2 hanging around to keep everything fresh until the following morning when I do the pressing. The juice starts running white, but it doesn't take long before it starts to run amber and then I know all the SO2 has evaporated.
I certainly wouldn't dream of chucking Campden tablets in my juice!

 

[Flat Foot]

Just checked progress on both,

Bucket one in the airing cupboard, this has had yeast since the 14th. Started around 1.050 and is now down to around 1.034 (I notice in my original post I made an error of the SG on this one). It looks like there's noticeably more krausen on the top today than other days, and there's a noticeable crackling noise. So I think after its "not making a fuss about it" start is really beginning to take off.

Bucket two with the brew belt has had yeast since the 15th. Started around 1.042. This is the one that went off the other day. Activity has noticeably subsided and it's now reading 1.004.

Tasted both, both tasted fine, bucket one was obviously sweeter as it still has plenty of sugar. But no obvious off tastes. I'm going to look to get them both out of the fermenting buckets soon, but it's really looking like I dodged a bullet or two