Cornie force carbonation

[Fore]

My first go at this. I'm finding the ale a little flat for my liking (possibly proper ale carbonation however), but my biggest issue is that it's all head. Well, I think I was hoping for the slow perfect pub style pour. OK, not a big deal; I've taken to pre-filling a jug and just topping up the pint. Here the issue I think... my cellar temp is 22 degrees and this is off the scale of the carbonation charts I looked at. I have it at 1 bar; the beer line is about 12 inch. I'm not ready for refrigeration just yet, and anyway, cooler weather approaches. Am I kidding myself to expect any carbonation at this temp?

Temperature aside, I find the flow rate is very high. It's useless to fully open the tap, partly why I end up with a pint of froth. I'm thinking that if I extended the beer line, then the flow rate would slow, helping maintain more of the carbonation in the beer (instead of lost in the froth). Is this thought process correct? I find it difficult to believe that the friction an extra say 50 cm line would offer would have any noticeable impact on the high flow rate I currently see, but you might tell me otherwise.

 

[bobsbeer]

A longer beer line will help. I also reduce the beer line down to 3/16ths from 3/8ths. This helps balance the pressure and flow ending up with a decently poured pint.

 

[Aleman]

If you are running 3/8 line then you will need something in the order of 18 feet at 1 bar . . possibly even more.

If you drop it to 3/16th then you can get away with as little as 18 inches at 1 bar (although that is at 3C)

Taps should ALWAYS be opened fully . . .unfortunately if the pressure isn't dropped using either a flow control tap or a balanced beer line then you either get foam Or you get a bubble bath

 

[Dave1970]

What Bob said!
I have a cheap party tap connected with about a 1 metre length of 3/16" line. I use it if I take a keg on holiday or to someone's house. It's never had a problem with pouring over a range of temps and pressures. The worst that happens is the pour rate gets slow as the pressure falls but at least you get a pint of beer not froth even if it does take a while.

 

[Fore]

Sorry yes, I didn't mention my beer line diameter. Well there is nothing printed on, but I measure the outside at 0.3 inch (8mm), so I assume that means I already have 3/16 line. It would be the length I need to address then. Sounds like 1m would be perfect; I don't mind waiting.

I just want to get my head around this concept... So as the beer passes through the line, the friction reduces the pressure forcing it out. And here's where I'm a bit confused... so OK, the pressure has dropped so the beer flows slower, but has the beer also lost its carbonation in this pressure drop, or will the carbonation level in the keg be maintained in the final beer?

If you say the carbonation will be maintained, then I think I might get it. It's simply a process of increasing the pressure to achieve the desired level of carbonation, then ensuring the correct line length to reduce the flow to the correct outflow rate. So a longer beer line suits summer, as a higher keg pressure is needed to carbonate the beer. Something I don't understand then, is that to force a beer from the cellar to the tap in a pub, the keg must be of much higher pressure, so why isn't pub beer super carbonated?

 

[Fore]

Ah just got it; they use bigger diameter lines, negating the need for the higher pressure. Oh, it starts to take shape :party:

 

[bobsbeer]

I assume that means I already have 3/16 line. It would be the length I need to address then. Sounds like 1m would be perfect;

You will need longer than 1m if you are going to use 3/8th line. I would use about 50cm of 3/16th line.

 

[Dave1970]

Your 8mm outside diameter line isn't 3/16". My 3/16" has an o.d. of only about 4mm.

 

[PD]

I would suggest its 5/16

 

[bobsbeer]

More likely 3/8ths ID.

 

[Fore]

Oh. So I'm now starting to think that I should cut into my short line (that I measure at 37 cm), and introduce a 3/16 length using two push-in fittings. That would give me the possibility to easily adjust the length of the inserted section as desired, essentially allowing for flow rate adjustment depending on keg pressure. I assume that neither the tap push-in nor the barbed disconnect would take the 3/16" line directly.

This is helping; thanks!

Do you always use a jubilee clip over a barbed connector, or are you comfortable that it will hold? I'm thinking, high pressure side, jubilee, low pressure side, no need.

Probably best if I source both the line and the fittings via. the internet. Any suggestions (EU delivery)?

 

[paulfg]

for all beer line and john guest fittings you cant do better than harmony hut on e-bay.
I live in greece and paul has always been helpful and good prices.
if you know what you need find him on ebay and send him a message if not message him with question

 

[Dave1970]

you need a reducer to get you down from your current pipe size to 3/16"...like these

 

[TheMumbler]

for all beer line and john guest fittings you cant do better than harmony hut on e-bay.
I live in greece and paul has always been helpful and good prices.
if you know what you need find him on ebay and send him a message if not message him with question

I've used harmony hut a few times and have always got great service. I got the parts pictured below from there.

The way I have mine connected is pictured below. Very short 3/16 tube reduced through a check return valve to 3/16 (something like 2-3m). It might be a bit of a kludge with 3/8 -> 5/16 -> 3/16. I use a midget widget set up so my pressure is a bit variable hence the extra long line. It tends to be quite a slow flow but I'd rather have that than a pint of foam. If you can control your pressure more finely you probably wouldn't need so much 3/16 line. To be honest I could probably lose a bit, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it

 

[Fore]

Thanks all. Things are a lot clearer to me now. Some fittings and line to be buying :thumb:

I do wonder about the line I have though. I have a micrometer and the OD reads very close to 8mm or about 0.315". It's John Guest tube by the way, the only discernible writing I found; horribble blue stiff stuff.

3/8 ID = 0.375"
5/16 ID = 0.313"
3/16 ID = 0.188"

It can't be 3/8 or 5/16, and is unlikely to be 3/16. Is 1/4" common, or might I have metric line?

 

[Fore]

Am I being daft? The tube diameters we discuss, I'm starting to think they are always outside diameter (not ID). If so, then it's certainly 5/16".

How do the stem reducers work? There are no barbs, so it would just push back off the stem no? Obviously not, but I just try ang get my head around the mechanics of it. Why a stem reducer and not a double sided push-in fitting?

 

[Dave1970]

It's id on the pipe.

I recommended the stem reducers because I was assuming you already had push fittings for your larger tube size. The stem just pushes into your existing push fit, and the the pipe into the stem. If you don't have them then just 3/16" push fittings make sense.

 

[TheMumbler]

3/8 seems to be the norm for the fitting to your corny. I have two types a push-on barb like the one in the photo and ones with a John Guest fitting screwed on both fit 3/8 tube. I haven't ever seen others but there could be different types

My lines are see through and have the diameter written on the outside (OD or ID is not specified), they are made by Valpar

John Guest do make a 1/4" tube according to their site but I don't know that it is for beer dispense. They do also do metric line.

 

[Fore]

Surprisingly difficult this, but I have the sizes now. The beer line is metric and it's 8mm OD, 6mm ID. That's closest to 1/4" ID.

I have no need for long beer line, so I'm thinking of inserting a 4mm OD, 2.5mm ID. How long?

My tap (push in 8mm) is connected directly to the Cornie rubber, with no room for the extra bulk that a stem fit would bring. Disconnect is barbed. So it looks like I'll cut the current line and insert two 2-sided push in fittings, 8mm to 4mm.

 

[Dave1970]

that sounds ok to me :thumb: