Couple of questions on fermenting

[j4mie1974]

Hi everyone new to site and it looks like an excellent place to gain some knowledge and make some new friends :)

Anyway i have some questions regarding my brewing.

I bought a brewbuddy cider kit, i have started it off, but noticed that it didnt come with an airlock. Should i be using one? or will cider brew happily just in the 5 gallon fermentation bin with lid. It looks to be frothing on the top, so i am assuming it is working correctly, i also forgot to take a hydrometer reading at the beginning, can i still get the % once it is ready to keg up.

Next question is to do with a 5 gallon red wine i have started in a fermentation bin its a muntons cabernat sauvignon red. I started this the same day as the cider and it is in the same understairs cupboard, but it hasnt started bubbling in the airlock yet . There seems to be some froth on the top and the cupboard is at 19 degrees c. How long should it take for this to begin?

Many thanks for reading jamie

 

[RobWalker]

is your lid sealed or does it have a hole in? If it's sealed you'll want to ease it off a little to allow the gas to escape, otherwise it'll pop the lid itself, quite spectacularly.
If you have a hole where the airlock should be, stuff some kitchen roll in tightly this time around. You should be using an airlock - it lets things escape without letting things in, notably infection/physical contamination/oxygen.

You will need to get this out of the bucket as soon as it's finished fermenting because it's protected by the cloud of co2 is generates during fermentation at the moment - when it's stopped fermenting, that'll dissipate over time and ruin your cider.

NExt time, use an airlock :p

 

[oldbloke]

There's a good bit of headroom in a 5gallon bin so the gas has somewhere to go, but pressure will build up (unless the lid isn't a perfect fit)- you'll need to lift that lid slightly to let some gas out whenever it looks taut. And every time you do that you risk introducing infection, though the layer of CO2 will provide some protection. A lot of people get away with it, including may experts, but an airlock is preferred.
Wine can take a good bit longer to really get going, and may be generally less vigorous anyway - depends on the wine. If it's frothing, it's started.

 

[Fergmeister]

I bought one of the brew buddy lager kits to get my equipment and the bucket never had a hole for an airlock, so I will presume that yours doesn't either. it should be fine in the bucket, the lid on mine will keep air out but as air builds up inside it will manage to find a way out (i let the air out myself by unsnapping the seal on one side when the lid is as tight as a drum. As for abv, the instructions will give you a guideline figure of what to expect based on the amount of sugar added and the volume of liquid (I know some cider kits give instructions for brewing a shorter, stronger brew). You can calculate it based on how much sugar you added, but really I don't think the estimate on the box would be miles away from the truth.

 

[j4mie1974]

Just a quick update, the wine and cider were both started on the 18th, the wine has an air lock, the wine has about 1cm of froth on the top but the airlock is not bubling at all :?

The cider has alot of froth on the top and i can smell a cidery aroma coming from the cupboard when i open it, i had a second lid that also didnt come with a airlock fitted for my lager kit which i will be starting in the new year, so i drilled a hole and used a spare airlock and swapped the lid on the cider so it now has a lid with a airlock, but it is not bubling and the lid before i removed it showed no signs of pressure, what am i doing wrong ? i was hoping that both would be on there way now and be showing good signs of working but i can feel my spirits lowering as i feel somehow that i am failing ......need some advice as the cider has been in 4 days and i assume i need to keg it soon?

many thanks jamie

 

[RobWalker]

deffo gonna have to get a gravity reading to answer this one. bubbling is not the only sign of fermentation and is also just a sign of general gas release, gravity readings will tell you where your fermentation stands.

 

[j4mie1974]

How do i take a gravity reading?

I do have a hydrometer, just not sure how to go about taking a reading, as i have no tall vessels.

 

[RobWalker]

do you have a tap on your FV? if so, just decant some into a tall glass or something. as long as there's enough room for it to float you should be okay. i find the reading more accurate once the trub drops out about an hour later.

if not, you could sanitize your hydro and drop it in the brew to quickly get a reading, i've done it once or twice with no noticable effects.

 

[j4mie1974]

Hi ok i have taken readings.

cider is at: 1.024

Wine is at: 1.036

Can anyone shed any light on what those readings mean?

many thanks jamie

 

[RobWalker]

yeah. they're far from fermented out, but you can probably estimate they're about halfway done at that reading. kits suffer from a lack of stirring usually but don't be tempted to. i'm imaging this is just a slow ferment.

 

[j4mie1974]

Hi took another reading today.

Cider: 1.010

Wine: 1.016

so the measurements have come down quite a bit, what sort of % alcohol would i have now?

Both been going since the 18th, both are still fizzing away, wine more so than the cider.

Im going to try to do a recipe next in a 1 gal demijohn and not a kit as i have been reading and there are some great recipes around.

 

[RobWalker]

they should drop out just under 1.000 which means no sugar content...they're going well! do you have your gravity readings from before fermentation? if so you have no way of telling the %, but that's not THAT important

 

[j4mie1974]

Hi many thanks for a quick response, so all looking good then, thats good im pleased so far and all you have said is giving me good hope i can actually do good things with brewing, early days yet, but we all have to start somewere.

I didnt know that i had to take a reading at the beginning until i had already got a few days into the fermentation. doh!

Im not keen on the 2 fv i have, im thinking they are not sealing to well around the lid, as i have not seen 1 bubble in the air lock, only a slight positive pressure showing in them, i remember my mum brewing home made wine and seeing the airlocks bubbling like mad.

how often should i take a reading with the hydrometer ?

Im having to drop it in the fv's but i am sterilizing it well between brews.

 

[sheffieldlad]

I didnt know that i had to take a reading at the beginning until i had already got a few days into the fermentation. doh!

Not too important. Don't worry too much about it. unless you want to know the finisghed ABV you don;t need to take a start reading.
If you decide you want to know the abv on your next brew then take a temp reading and a hydrometer reading.
Hydrometers are caliberated to a certain temprature. each reading you make should be at the same temp.
google using a hydrometer for more info about temp corrected readings.

Im not keen on the 2 fv i have, im thinking they are not sealing to well around the lid, as i have not seen 1 bubble in the air lock, only a slight positive pressure showing in them, i remember my mum brewing home made wine and seeing the airlocks bubbling like mad.

Again, not too much of a worry. most lids do not seal well and if it's easier for gas to escape through the 'seal' than it is for it to travel through the airlock then the airlock will never bubble. Enough gas will escape to prevent the lid from popping off if this is the case..
just keep an eye on it to make sure pressure doesn't get too high in there.

how often should i take a reading with the hydrometer ?

Im having to drop it in the fv's but i am sterilizing it well between brews.

once at the start then when you suspect fermentation has finished take 2 or 3 readings 24 hours apart at the same temp .
If they are the same then fermentation has finished.

Don't bother halfway through the fermentation process as every time you open the lid you risking infection.
Patience is the key.

Hope your brews turn out well, they sound as if they are well on their way. :party:

:drink:

-Paul

 

[shocker]

You say that the cupboard is 19*C.....have you measured the temp of the brews ? As Sheff Lad says , the hydrometer reading need to adjusted for temp but since they are mostly set at 20* you shouldnt be far off . The temp of the liquid is also relevent to the speed of ferment (subject to type of yeast used)....often a lower temp ferment will be longer and slower than one at a higher temperature . Again dependent on yeast used !

What you really need now is for your readings to be steady for several days .

 

[j4mie1974]

really appreciate the answers, looks like its all going good, hope it doesnt taste like vineger.

Once the cider has finished fermenting when should i put it into my plastic barrel ?

And once i have done this how long should it sit in there before i taste it?

I cant wait to try it :drink:

On the wine front can i store it in a few demi johns or should i put it into smaller bottles.

 

[RobWalker]

vinegar taste will only come out if you expose it to air after fermentation - its important to use a syphon if you need to move it anywhere, or to bottle it.

I usually let it clear in the primary bucket, then move it over to the keg after that, means you have less issues in moving it around if you need to, and it won't be sat on a load of crud at the bottom. I'd leave cider a few months before it gets good, takes a fair while longer than beer. if it's drinkable from the first day though, don't let anything stop you!

as for your wine, I sat an apple wine on the yeast cake for 6 months and it tasted amazing - most people recommend getting it off as soon as possible, but headspace seems like more of an issue than the yeast cake to me. you can store in either, shouldn't be a problem either way.

 

[j4mie1974]

Hi, bit of an update.

cider has stopped fermenting at 1.004.
I have addedd 85g of sugar to the keg and have syphoned it into there to clear. managed a small taste and it isnt half bad :thumb: may need to sweaten it a bit though, so how is the best way of doing that?

Wine has also stopped at 0.998, so i am now as we speak in the process of racking it and adding the finnings and going to leave it then for 7 days to clear then bottle.
Im going to nip down the bottle bank and try to get hold of 30 green wine bottle or a assortment of them as i want to do a gallon of pineapple wine next.

 

[RobWalker]

Your cider is young and sharp. Ciders need to age for a few months before they're good, many people confuse sweetness with lack of flavour and too much sharpness...if you're adamant on sweetening, the two easy ways are stirring splenda into the brew at this point, or my favourite is to pour a little apple juice into the glass - no hassle, instant sweetness, more flavour!