did I just fail at the first step?

[Noodleman]

Hello Everybody,

A total beginner here, so please be gentle. I got talking to a wine brewing group recently at a local show, I was so inspired I went and kitted up and started to give wine making a go. I followed the instructions they gave me, at least how I recalled them and started my wine about a week ago. However, I am now thinking that I made a silly mistake in the first stage and may have to start over. I would appreciate some advice, and letting me know if I should write of this batch and start again.

My error? Well! I mixed up my recipe as I wanted, added all the various ingredients and was happy. The first 3-4 days there was very active fermentation, and it finally reduced to a lower level today. However, I put an airlock on at this stage. I now realize after doing some actual research that this was most likely the wrong thing to do because the yeast will need oxygen from the air at this point. I've seen the processes referred to as "stage 1" and "stage 2". Stage 1 being the aggressive fermentation, and "stage 2" being the slower fermentation phase with an airlock.

I racked my wine today, and it didn't smell great, there is a very strong sulphate smell. I think this means I have probably screwed it up at this point. I did read some articles which suggested you can recover from this point simply by aggravating the wine, thus adding some oxygen into the mix which would drive out the sulphates, but because of the reason for the sulphates I think its wrecked.

Should I scrap this batch and start over?

Thanks in advance for any replies :)

Noodle.

 

[calumscott]

No, you got it right.

Wine is very much a mix it and go affair (well, the WOW style juice ones are). It will stink, they all do. It fades as/after fermentation finishes.

Take a gravity reading and if it's all on track, tuck it away, let it get on with things and it'll be fine. It takes a while... Actually that reminds me - I must go and check on my two slow ones - one's been in the DJ probably three months now...

 

[bobsbeer]

Welcome. You seem to be doing fine. There are three rules in homebrew for both wine and beer. 1 Keep everything clean. 2 Don't Worry. 3 Keep everything clean. And finally the most important rule. 4. DON'T WORRY it will be fine. If you follow these rules your brews will be fine and great to drink. Keep going and don't worry. :thumb: :

 

[JonnyD]

A quick note, some of these kits claim to be 7 day kits (or there abouts). Don't believe them.
Just leave it to ferment fully, then leave it another week. Then rack it, and leave it a couple of months to mature. I know it's frustrating but you will have a much better wine at the end of it

 

[alanywiseman.]

I believe that the sulphur smell is due to lack of nutrient. The smell does go with time or you could stir it gentle with a copper pipe. I gave not tried this but apparently it gets rid of the smell.

Don't chuck it, leave it to mature or at least the smell to go before bottling.

 

[Noodleman]

Thanks for the info :) , I'm not feeling quite so bad about it now. Some.extra info, I am not using an off the shelf kit, I've picked up some (quite a lot!!) Of demijohns and have the the basic tools, mixing bucket, hydro etc.

My first batch which I am concerned with is made from various supermarket non concentrate fruit juices. I took advantage of the current offer in sainsburys.:)

I am planning on starting some others tomorrow. Should I avoid using an airlock for these new ones until the.aggressive fermentation is over, or perhaps use the same method but add more nutrient?

I was reading up about wow, as I didn't get the.reference, but now I do :), I see some people saying they do the first racking a month in, and some suggest as soon as the aggressive fermentation is over, does it really make much of a difference?

Cheers all

 

[chrig]

Fill the demijohn to just under the shoulder and you will find most wines will not manage to escape through the airlock, so you can stick one in straight away. Once they have died down you can gently fill them with cooled boiled water.

There is a good wow guide on this forum. its a very good starting point to get the basics

 

[oldbloke]

The must needs oxygen at the very start, before it even does the "wow look at that go!" bit. So you're fine.

As others have said, the smell isn't at all unusual, and will go.

Except for stuff started in a bucket and transferred to demijohn after a few days, I use a lock from the start - just don't fill the demi right up, as others pointed out. It's as much to stop stuff falling in as anything.

I don't generally rack until about a month in, unless there's a lot of ****^H^H^H^Hsediment on the bottom. It's not hugely important except: once the wine is just about done, the live yeast might start eating the dead yeast (and other rubbish on the bottom) if it can't find sugar, and that can lead to off flavours, and, every time you rack there's a risk of infection or oxidation.

 

[Noodleman]

thank you for all of the feedback, I really appreciate it :)

Chrig, I actually did just as you described. Each Demijohn was filled to around the shoulder level originally, and I topped up with cooled, boiled water when racking. I was going to top them up with juice, but I decided against this for this batch due to my concerns. Wishing I had stuck with my plan now

So, I have 4 x 1 gallon DJ's at the moment, which is what I racked yesterday. I still have some concerns. Out of the 4 that I racked, one 1 continues to bubble, all of them had a hydro reading of .994 - .996.

The wine currently bubbling is doing so at a steady pace, about once every 10 seconds. The remaining 3, I sat and watched for several mins, and not once did they bubble. I assume this means that the fermentation process has ended... but I wasn't expecting it to happen after just 5 days, and considering they were bubbling before racking. So, back to my original question... Did I screw something up , or should I invoke rules 2 & 4, and "don't worry" :whistle:

 

[godfrey]

don't worry

your readings show they are fermented out :thumb:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If I read your original post correctly you are saying you don't put an airlock in until the fermentation dies down, all the kits and the wow guides say to put the ingredients in, shake and put the airlock in.

I rack my wow to clean DJ seven days after fermentation has finished, for kits I have always followed the instructions and finished in the original FV.

 

[Noodleman]

If I read your original post correctly you are saying you don't put an airlock in until the fermentation dies down, all the kits and the wow guides say to put the ingredients in, shake and put the airlock in.

I rack my wow to clean DJ seven days after fermentation has finished, for kits I have always followed the instructions and finished in the original FV.

I actually did put an airlock on from the start, but I was concerned because I found lots of advice saying this was the wrong thing to do. But, I guess because I only filled to the shoulder of the DJ, there was enough air inside to keep things happy.

Feeling happier in general about the whole scenario now, batch 2 being started today

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I always fill to just below the shoulder give the DJ a real good shake when everything is in it and put the airlock on, i have never had one fail to start or finish, it also gives you peace of mind that nothing can get in and spoil your wine.

If you are looking for ideas here is a thread with many recipes from forum members -

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=39846

 

[Grand gris]

Looks like you're pretty much on track to me. :clap:

When you think it has finished fermenting you can leave it in the container for weeks after - I always leave a week as it ensures it has totally finished fermenting. This will help ensure it doesn't start to ferment in the bottle.

I also wait until the sulphur smell has gone before bottling.

Happy Brewing :

 

[Crastney]

I always put an airlock on my brews from the start, and have had no problems - so don't worry about that.
When you rack from one DJ to another, you're taking the liquid, and leaving the lees, ****, dead yeast, etc at the bottom of the first DJ, what this means is that there is a lot less yeast in the second DJ, so the fermentation will be happening with a very much smaller yeast population, so if there is any sugar left, then this 'second fermentation' might take a while to get started. your readings were .994-.996, all below 1.000 which basically would suggest that they've finished (or nearly finished) fermenting.
It's not really first and second fermentation, it's one continuous process, but split between the racking, so the fermentation starts on the all of the ingredients, but continues on just the racked liquid. Again, don't worry.
my ciders that I started making homebrew with stayed several months in the FV with an airlock in, and didn't come to any harm, so I wouldn't worry about this either. Once racked off most of the lees, they'll happily sit there for a few weeks, clearing, and maturing - you could even use a solid bung if you wanted, to ensure that no air gets in (if the airlock dries out).

biggest thing is cleanliness, then patience, and then not worrying.

 

[Noodleman]

I always put an airlock on my brews from the start, and have had no problems - so don't worry about that.
When you rack from one DJ to another, you're taking the liquid, and leaving the lees, ****, dead yeast, etc at the bottom of the first DJ, what this means is that there is a lot less yeast in the second DJ, so the fermentation will be happening with a very much smaller yeast population, so if there is any sugar left, then this 'second fermentation' might take a while to get started. your readings were .994-.996, all below 1.000 which basically would suggest that they've finished (or nearly finished) fermenting.
It's not really first and second fermentation, it's one continuous process, but split between the racking, so the fermentation starts on the all of the ingredients, but continues on just the racked liquid. Again, don't worry.
my ciders that I started making homebrew with stayed several months in the FV with an airlock in, and didn't come to any harm, so I wouldn't worry about this either. Once racked off most of the lees, they'll happily sit there for a few weeks, clearing, and maturing - you could even use a solid bung if you wanted, to ensure that no air gets in (if the airlock dries out).

biggest thing is cleanliness, then patience, and then not worrying.

Thanks for the info, another notch on the "don't worry" belt for me there. I am starting to think that the don't worry bit comes easier after the first batch, because you can drink it to take the edge off when making the second batch :drunk: I've put the 4 from my first batch to one side to forget about for a while, to let it settle and hopefully let it clear naturally. If you don't mind me asking, in your own processes do you tend to rack your goods more than once? I see a lot of variation in peoples methods and trying to figure out what I might need to do later down the line. I suspect 1 more racking prior to bottling.

I've started a couple new ones today. I've got some pink grapefruit that went in a couple hours ago, and I am also trying an orange, passion fruit and mango mix. I've another 12 gallons to mix up of various things over the rest of this week. I decided to stagger it over the week so that I don't have to spend a massive block of time racking in one go. If I space it out a bit I can do a bit each day :)

If those go well, Then I still have about 15 more jars to fill next week. I've sorted our Christmas pressies early this year :drink:

I think I did well picking up almost 30 glass jars for less than the price of 3 average supermarket wines

will get my cider going soon too, once my apple tree has bulked out the fruit on it a bit. Exciting times!

 

[Crastney]

I normally rack twice - once after the initial ferment has settled down, and then once just prior to bottleling.
sometimes I've forgotten, or left the first one too long, and only racked once, or even just straight into bottles.
once I racked three times, but that was one that threw a lot of sediment.
If you're making juice WOW style wines, then there will not be much sediment, so one rack should be fine, then left to mature and clear - at botteling there might only be a thin layer of sediment, which you could rack off that and leave for a day and then bottle, or just bottle carefully to avoid disturbing the sediment.