Marston's Owd Rodger - anyone made it?

[sifty]

Tried my first bottle of this the other week and really enjoyed it. Would like to attempt something similar. Every recipe I've seen though is quite different. Any of the good folk here done one?

I'd love to have a crack at a Burton style strong, dark ale. I've got a freezer full of whole Fuggle hops and am intrigued by adding treacle, as some recipes recommend. If I put one down soon it should be good to drink next winter (June/July)...

Any tips gratefully appreciated as I'm flying blind here...

If I get a chance tomorrow I'll list what recipes I have found. Cheers...

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Go on Malt Millers site they sell a kit.

 

[Sandimas]

They used to sell Owd Roger on handpump locally in the 80s. We all had a pint, mate had 2 having downed the first one rather quickly, let's say the result was rather messy. A very big beer but one to be savoured.

With an OG that high you'll need plenty of yeast, 2 packets if using dried. And there will be a lot of grain to mash, depending on your equipment you might want to do a smaller-volume brew so it can handle the mash. The Malt Miller recipe looks pretty good to me.
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/myrecipe_dc/recview.php?rid=693

 

[The Baron]

Is that right in that recipe 10ltrs of mash water for 7.3kg of grain?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Needs at least 22 litres of mash water.

 

[Pennine]

900g of brown malt seems a bit high? Does owd Roger have a lot of burnt toast in it? It's been a while since I have had it.

 

[sifty]

Brilliant. I'll put that in Brewfather and see how it looks. Never used Brown malt before but Gladfield sell a version.

"Gladfield Brown malt is a stronger version of their biscuit malt but made from green chitted malt. This allows good colour build up with out the astringency from husk damage. This malt will impart a dry biscuity flavour to the beer along with nice amber colour. Ideal in Porters, Stouts, Dark Ales or Dunkels in careful amounts."

I've only had one taste so hard to recall exactly, but was rich and had a very dark fruit type background. Hard to describe, might have to buy another bottle....

Thanks...

 

[Clint]

I think you may only arrive at a fully factual analysis if you buy six bottles...

 

[The Baron]

If you drank 6 of them Clint it would see you off

 

[Clint]

Probably! You should drink 5 to have a jolly good night in..with a beef madras,pilau rice and naan bread. The last bottle should be tried alongside your brew for comparison.
You know it makes sense.

 

[sifty]

I would happily buy it and follow the above instructions if it was more readily available/cheaper...

A quick look and seems I need 5 packages of liquid yeast. At $18 each that won't be happening. Guess I'll be doing my first yeast starter too..

 

[The Baron]

2 packs of a dried yeast should be enough Sifty or do a starter as you suggested

 

[Clint]

Idea installed...I gotta make a beef madras...

 

[Sandimas]

900g of brown malt seems a bit high?

There's about 650g of Brown Malt in Fullers London Porter so 900g for Owd Roger doesn't sound excessive. Works well in the porter, brewed it a few times.

 

[YeastFace]

There's about 650g of Brown Malt in Fullers London Porter so 900g for Owd Roger doesn't sound excessive. Works well in the porter, brewed it a few times.

Have you a link to the Fuller's London Porter recipe please?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I’d use Dark Munich at 500g and Chocolate at 150g.

 

[Pennine]

There's about 650g of Brown Malt in Fullers London Porter so 900g for Owd Roger doesn't sound excessive. Works well in the porter, brewed it a few times.

I looked at a couple of pictures and you are right it's definitely in the porter colour range. I remember it being more dark red like a Abbott ale though for some reason.

 

[Pennine]

Have you a link to the Fuller's London Porter recipe please?

I'd be interested too. From the website.

Brewed to 5.4% ABV, London Porter bears outstanding depth of flavour. The blend of Brown, Crystal and Chocolate malts provide earthy character and creamy delivery, while hints of coffee and chocolate carry through onto the tongue. The range of flavours works well with a wide variety of foods, from rich meat dishes to chocolate puddings.

 

[sifty]

Turns out the Malt Miller Owd Rodger recipe is the same as one I'd already found on a forum online and put in Brewfather. I've found several types of recipe, the simple base malt with brown ale, plus variations of base malt with dark crystal, light chocolate, black and other speciality malts, and ones with dark treacle.

So what style is an Owd Rodger? Marston’s is currently calling it a Strong Ale, but I believe it has also been called An Old Ale, a Country Ale, and some old labels called it a Barley wine. The BJCP guidelines have changed in this category a little, and I think it best suits the 'Old Ale' category, so that's what I'm using as a target.

I'm tempted by the simplicity of just using Base & Brown malt, but also really want to add treacle, as I haven't used it before. We don't get Dark Treacle here in NZ but the Chelsea sugar website states: "If you are using a UK recipe you might find they refer to treacle or dark treacle. Often they are referring to golden syrup when they say treacle, with our Chelsea Treacle being more in line with their dark treacle."

Combining recipes to meet the style, with input from the excellent 'Designing Great Beers' book (Ray Daniels) I came up with:

6500g Gladfield Ale malt (5.5 EBC)
500g Gladfield Brown malt (178 EBC)
450g Treacle (197 EBC)
230g Gladfield Med. Crystal (100 EBC)

This is a robust 7.23 kg of grains, so will likely get to use the boiler extension on my Brewzilla...

And I want to use my Fuggle hops so adding:
84g Fuggle 60 mins
20g Fuggle 20 mins
20g EKG 20 mins

(might tweak this yet as have all these hops in stock, and time to play with IBU).

Giving roughly:
7.2 % ABV, 40 EBC, 45 IBU

Which falls nicely within the guidelines:
Category 17B - Old Ale
5.5-9.0%, 19.7-43.5 EBC, 30-60 IBU

Yeast is another tricky one, consensus seems to be any London Ale type yeast, with 1318, 1028 and WLP023 (Burton) all being mentioned. All are a bit difficult to get here atm though, so I'm looking at an Australian yeast, Bluestone London (BSY-029) that sounds promising "Originating from a traditional London brewery, this yeast has a wonderful malt and hop profile. It is a true top cropping strain with a fruity, very light and softly balanced palate. This strain will finish slightly sweet."

Will still have to make a starter looking at the numbers however, so will also purchase a starter kit with my ingredients order, that comes with a 2000ml flask, light DME and nutrients (I already have a stir plate).

So that's the plan, will order gear in and read up on making a starter...

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@sifty
450g of black/ dark treacle will be noticeable I reckon in the brew. Lots of molasses / unrefined sugar in it. More towards dark muscovado than brown sugar.
The Chelsea treacle is very similar to tate and Lyle dark treacle and is strong stuff it has more molasses in it than golden syrup which is basically inverted white sugar.
Does the recipe originally suggest Invert No 3 ?

You could look at making the invert sugar it's pretty easy.

If by treacle they mean golden syrup then that's not going to be dominant but again is more towards invert 1. Again just make it.
Big starter will really help and expect a fair amount of Krausen.

Beer festival on saturday was nice and warm, plenty of good beers. Especially from the Invercargill breweries.