Marston's Owd Rodger - anyone made it?

[sifty]

@RoomWithABrew
Only ever seen Lyle's dark treacle mentioned, and can buy Chelsea's treacle at the supermarket so will just use that. Never tasted it before so might tweak recipe if it seems too overwhelming.

Looking at this article the amount seems OK?

https://beerandbrewing.com/amp/make-your-best-old-ale/
And yeah enjoyed the festival. Favourite was the Oamaru brewery (Craftwork) that had all bottle conditioned Belgians, although gave most other stalls a nudge...

 

[RoomWithABrew]

That Chelsea treacle is very similar, used to use the black treacle in a Dave line brewing beers like those you buy recipe for Theakstons Old peculier.
Oamaru brewery very good, she makes great beer. In fact it was first beer we had at the festival.
Previous week went to Funk on the water which was compact festival in wellington with aged beers, sours fruited etc, very enjoyable. Schedule your diary for next labour weekend for that one.

 

[sifty]

Brewed this on Sunday.
I made my first yeast starter on Friday night (made up to 1.5 litre total size with 150g DME) and put it on the stir plate I'd bought ages ago in a 20 deg brew fridge. The Bluestone yeast is in a big packet (guaranteed 200b cells) so that added a bit of volume on top...

It's a big brew, 7.23kg of grain, so added the extension collar to my Brewzilla in case I needed it.
So on Sat I was ready to go with yeast multiplying, water and salts in the kettle, sparge urn filled and just grain to mill...

 

[Sandimas]

Have you a link to the Fuller's London Porter recipe please?

The one I use is in the Graham Wheeler book and I see someone has put it into Brewers Friend
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/604958/fuller-s-london-porter-clone

 

[sifty]

Sunday morning (after a 4am start to watch All Blacks v Wales) I milled the grain, was a big amount when crushed, 15 litres in my 20l bucket...

So the mash was pretty thick with this going into 23 litres. Took a bit of stirring until things thinned out and I could add the top plate and run the pump unattended. The extension was handy but possibly could have managed without it, I removed it for the boil anyway as volume only around 26 litres.
The treacle was thick, black, and messy and I added it just prior to the boil so I could get a pre boil gravity reading (1.074)...

And boil went fine, added hops on schedule, a mix of my Fuggle whole cones and EKG pellets...

Ended up with an OG of 1.081. Recipe predicted 1.084 but also had a fairly high FG of 1.030, so we'll see how things go with this new (to me) Yeast. ABV could be anywhere from 6.8 - 8%...

 

[sifty]

And into the fermenter...

Colour came out a nice dark amber, very sweet to the taste, as you'd expect, and noticably hoppy...

With the yeast added (remembered to catch the stir bar with a magnet) and all the cold break material it came out to just shy of 25 litres. Fermentation began overnight and a thick Krausen appeared by the next morning...

So now we wait...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Actual recipe for Fuller's Imperial Porter and sort-of for the regular Porter direct from the horse's mouth here :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...m-the-horses-mouth.642756/page-3#post-8674860

We don't get Dark Treacle here in NZ but the Chelsea sugar website states: "If you are using a UK recipe you might find they refer to treacle or dark treacle. Often they are referring to golden syrup when they say treacle, with our Chelsea Treacle being more in line with their dark treacle."

Hmm - I'd argue that "often". I assume there must be some archaic usage of "treacle" meaning the pale stuff, as that's the only explanation for treacle tart being made with golden syrup, but I've never come across it. Any modern recipe would always use "treacle" in the sense of the dark stuff.

And it's potent stuff, it's really easy to overdo it. Even in the Imperial Porter they only use 2.3% treacle.

 

[sifty]

It's certainly pretty strong stuff. Tried a bit on a teaspoon...

 

[RoomWithABrew]

It's certainly pretty strong stuff. Tried a bit on a teaspoon...

There's been a long thread on growing starters on another forum and I've been using the info from this site for my starters and had much improved productivity. I do chill my starter at the end so that I can pour off most of the liquid and only add minimal oxidised " beer " with my yeast starter. Although I reckon the flavours of your beer and the treacle will mask any issues. Certainly worth doing though for a pale beer.

https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php/2022/09/20/optimizing-yeast-starters/
In summary warmer and more nutrient made a big difference.

 

[sifty]

Makes sense @RoomWithABrew .
There was noticeable yeast sediment that settled when I turned the stirplate off, could have easily poured off some liquid but the yeast seemed quite dense and sticky and I was concerned about yield. As you say, this beer is robust enough to handle any excess DME mix, so I poured the lot in.

Just read an option is to take some wort from the brew with a turkey basher and squirt that into the flask to swirl before pitching. Will do that next time probably (after chilling and decanting the starter).

Making starters always scared me a little, might be a regular occurrence now, will certainly save some money and hopefully improve performance...

 

[peebee]

... I'm tempted by the simplicity of just using Base & Brown malt, but also really want to add treacle, as I haven't used it before ...

And ... so you have (used it)!

I often warn about using dark treacle. Not because it makes bad beer, and I'm sure the beer you've made will be most palatable, but because the strong, warm, lush flavours it introduces will mask any attempts of making subtle changes to the recipe in future. A point that took me decades to figure out and I will not allow treacle in any of my beers now (or molasses which I thought - mistakenly - was less strong). I think I can say with some confidence there isn't any treacle in Marston's "Owd Rodger".

Dave Line did used to say in his book that Theakston's "Old Perculier" used treacle, and I based my recipe on that for many years. But what he really said was it was primed with treacle (bit unlikely, thinking back on it).

... Although I reckon the flavours of your beer and the treacle will mask any issues ...

and

... And it's potent stuff, it's really easy to overdo it. Even in the Imperial Porter they only use 2.3% treacle ...

You have been warned! But as I said, it takes time (a lifetime?) to figure out treacle is having such an adverse effect. Meanwhile, you can enjoy it!



I have the option to order in a pack of "Owd Rodger" from Marston's on-line shop ... so I just have! Just in case my Xmas homebrews don't meet the capacity specs! Plus some Robinson's "Old Tom" the other local-ish "Winter Warmer" I would enjoy (and preferred) as a youth about this time of year ... though living near Derby back then, that would have all been cask and so much better than fizzy bottles.

 

[peebee]

There's been a long thread on growing starters on another forum and I've been using the info from this site for my starters and had much improved productivity. ...

Getting a bit off subject, but that "Sur Generis Brewing" article was interesting. I'd been put off Sur Generis by an appallingly inaccurate article caramelising invert sugar, but that was the old site, not this new one.

All the same, the paragraph about "Fed-Batch" (and "Crabtree Effect") was a bit unclear and open to confusion (I was confused by it!), but quickly put right in the next section ("You still need oxygenation for production of sterols and unsaturated fatty acids"). The emphasis was very much towards temperature, so a temperature-controlled incubation cupboard tags on to the "to-do" list. It was geared, as the title suggested, towards "large scale", so perhaps I can skip the "Fed-Batch" optimisations anyway and take note of using higher gravity starter media (not as optimal, but we don't need "optimal" if it keeps the starter volumes from getting out of hand).

Waffle, waffle! It's because it's my current "project" which has been aimed at getting more out of the "Homebrew Dad Yeast Starter Calculator". You can read about it >here< (Caution: Off-site link - Jim's Beer Kit). In fact, ... I should be getting my next yeast starter on the go, not sitting on my ar ... backside like now.



[EDIT:

Making starters always scared me a little, ...

Scares you a little? It blasted well terrifies me hence I've wasted so much time hacking that Homebrew Dad calculator.]

 

[sifty]

Interesting info @peebee thanks.
Yes I also suspect the treacle could be overwhelming (used 3%) but wanted to try it as an exercise.
On my 27th brew now and have only repeated two recipes. All about the experimentation and learning...

 

[peebee]

... On my 27th brew now and have only repeated two recipes. All about the experimentation and learning...

27th brew? I past my 27th year brewing a while ago ... be "x2" before I know it! And I'm still "experimenting and learning"! Not just because that's part of home brewing, but also so I can pester everyone using brewing forums 'cos I use them as an "extension" for logging ("replacement" more like) in my dodgy brain.

And some more on-subject "learning" turned up today. Two [EDIT: Two? Four! I can't count either] litres of "Owd Rodger" from Marston's on-line shop ... for further research purposes. Never had "Owd Rodger" from a bottle before. Apparently, I can pour it into a glass, my partner says I didn't need to buy the bottle teats?

 

[sifty]

Fermentation over and cold crashing now, 12 days in, will bottle over the weekend. Took a sample, lovely colour and came in at a FG of ~ 1.020 (will confirm later after temp has stabilised)...

That gives me an ABV around 8%, so will be approx 8.2% bottle conditioned.

And the taste test? A little overwhelming if I'm honest, may have overdone the treacle after all...

We'll see how it mellows after some time in the bottle though. Pretty pleased with it overall, now to cobble together a label...

 

[sifty]

FG settled at 1.019, so around 8.1%. My calculator said 0.29% would be added by the bottle conditioning sugar, so ABV of around 8.4%...

Knocked some labels out in homage to the inspirational Owd Rodger...

Can't say I'm familiar with the Kenny Everett DIY character (bit before my time) but thought the image was fitting. Look forward to tasting it in a couple of weeks...

 

[RoomWithABrew]

FG settled at 1.019, so around 8.1%. My calculator said 0.29% would be added by the bottle conditioning sugar, so ABV of around 8.4%...

Knocked some labels out in homage to the inspirational Owd Rodger...
View attachment 78186
View attachment 78188
Can't say I'm familiar with the Kenny Everett DIY character (bit before my time) but thought the image was fitting. Look forward to tasting it in a couple of weeks...

I remember him " it was all done in the best possible taste "
but maybe that should be on the back label. More research for you!

 

[peebee]

Look forward to tasting it in a couple of weeks...

I was going to give you a right telling off for having a beer like that in the fridge. But then I remember you're down there with Summer on the doorstep while I've been outside in the cold and rain rearranging the tarpaulin keeping my kitchen dry.

Grr. For rubbing it in (that your weather is better than ours), I brand your post with a grumpy face

 

[sifty]

Ha. It's a brew fridge with a heater, fermenting/conditioning at a toasty 20 degs for a couple of weeks. Could probably leave it in the house but temp a bit variable, had some thunderstorms this week....

Actually had a milk stout straight out of the (cold) fridge last night though. Couldn't wait for it to warm up a bit.
That was a mistake...

 

[peebee]

had some thunderstorms this week....

Careful of those thunderstorms. They are apt to turn your milk and make your beer go cloudy. Gawd knows what they might do to milk stout?