'Thieves' knocked off mopeds by police in London

dad_of_jon said:

make sure u're wearing your hbf t-shirt myqul, it will get you immunity from police ramming u when your on your bike

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I've got scythes on my wheels, like a roman chariot to deal with em

phillc said:

Mistakes can happen, with unfortunate consequences.

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Worse. If mistakes can happen, then mistakes certainly will happen.

Gunge said:

God I would dearly love to have that job. I'd never want my shift to end.

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Makes the GTA franchise look pretty tame

A good answer to avoiding the car damage mentioned earlier would be to fit bull bars to the cars I would prefer spikes myself.

phillc said:

I would rather that the root causes of the crime were addressed, rather than an escalation of violence.

I am making assumptions now, and I would be very happy for someone to provide references either way, but I would think the majority of moped/scooter crime involves youth from a lower socio-economic background. Through education and a fairer society, in terms income distribution and access to opportunities, I believe this type of crime could also be reduced.

@AdeDunn touched on this in his earlier post regarding tax cuts for the rich, but equality in advanced market capitalist societies is quite poor, which in turn leads to underclass who see crime as a way to obtain the materialistic assets they're led to believe, through constant advertising, are essential.

Deliberate ramming during a chase does nothing to address the underlying issues and while it may reduce the specific instances of scooter/moped crime in this case, the perpetrators will soon turn to other methods, such as bicycles which were also mentioned earlier.

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You're not wrong there, not to mention the pure anger engendered amongst an entire section of society when they see a tiny part of our community with more than they will ever need, who are stood there pointing their fingers at everybody else allotting blame for absolutely every injustice you can imagine.... The harder it gets to see any hope, the easier it becomes to turn to crime. Plus the simple truth is, the more criminals you catch, the more it costs to process and then punish them. Where does the money come from for that then? That's right, tax payers.... Meanwhile you have corporations making a killing by outsourcing labour to markets where labour is dirt cheap, to sell products in markets where profits are higher, to make that minority even wealthier.... etc etc etc.... The elite continue to profit, whilst continuing to hoard, and continuing to insist that they are absolutely paying their fair share...

I have no sympathy for them at all, if your unhappy about growing up poor its not hard to get a job and turn your life around or do something to try to improve society. No matter how much things are stacked against you its no excuse to violently attack others to steal there possessions they worked for.

AdeDunn said:

You're not wrong there, not to mention the pure anger engendered amongst an entire section of society when they see a tiny part of our community with more than they will ever need, who are stood there pointing their fingers at everybody else allotting blame for absolutely every injustice you can imagine.... The harder it gets to see any hope, the easier it becomes to turn to crime. Plus the simple truth is, the more criminals you catch, the more it costs to process and then punish them. Where does the money come from for that then? That's right, tax payers.... Meanwhile you have corporations making a killing by outsourcing labour to markets where labour is dirt cheap, to sell products in markets where profits are higher, to make that minority even wealthier.... etc etc etc.... The elite continue to profit, whilst continuing to hoard, and continuing to insist that they are absolutely paying their fair share...

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Very true, but it doesn't stop the middle and upper classes pontificating - while doing nothing useful to cut down the problems that they go on about, incessantly.

simon12 said:

I have no sympathy for them at all, if your unhappy about growing up poor its not hard to get a job and turn your life around or do something to try to improve society. No matter how much things are stacked against you its no excuse to violently attack others to steal there possessions they worked for.

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You either a) live in a fantasy world, or b) have lived a blessed life that has led to you thinking that that is how the world actually works... lol

Although I agree that there is no excuse for violent crime, or to be quite honest crime of any sort. The idea that jobs are easy to get is one based on fantasy, or a life of pure luck... lol Or you just live in one of these rare areas where that's actually a thing. Especially when you realise that "getting a job" most often just makes that rich guy richer, because you spend your whole life working for peanuts doing just that.... Working your fingers to the bone for a wage that allows you to just about get by, paying tax, obeying the law, doing as you are told. One day, folks will realise that we don't have capitalism, we have pay cheque slavery. We're born into it, and trained to obey like sheep, all to keep us in-line and obeying the system, making the elite more money and power. Anything goes wrong, point the finger at the poorest, those with the least, they're just so easy to blame. Especially when you own the media that the workers put their trust in and rely on for their "news"....

Dode, the upper and middle classes are very unlikely to ever do anything useful, as they live in the dream that they can one day join the elite. The dream of ambition, far more effective than threats or violence. Just so long as you give them somebody to blame, they're happy to carry on ranting and foaming at the mouth at the wrong people.

So, sadly, the only choice we have is the jack boot, as otherwise one day we too become victims of criminals. Given the choice of the criminals becoming victims of the police, or my family or myself becoming a victim of criminals, sorry but I am selfish, I'll take the police option. It actually saves me having to break the law just to protect my family....

I may be a lefty, but I also SERIOUSLY hate bullies and hate been anybodies victim....

AdeDunn said:

Especially when you realise that "getting a job" most often just makes that rich guy richer, because you spend your whole life working for peanuts doing just that.... Working your fingers to the bone for a wage that allows you to just about get by, paying tax, obeying the law, doing as you are told. One day, folks will realise that we don't have capitalism, we have pay cheque slavery. We're born into it, and trained to obey like sheep, all to keep us in-line and obeying the system, making the elite more money and power.

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And while we wait for the end of pay check slavery (one day in the very distant future) i see no harm in giving the police new power to stop those who think because they have no job its OK to steal nice things off those that have earned them.

.

AdeDunn said:

Properly funding law enforcement would be a good start...

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I think they are reasonably funded, it's just that they waste it on stupid things like... Rainbow police cars. https://mashable.com/2015/08/03/brighton-pride-police-cars/?europe=true

And gender neutral police head wear.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/10/police-swap-helmets-caps-attract-transgender-officers/

Note: I'm NOT expressing hatred towards anybody... just a hatred of wasted police funds.

Gulpitdarn said:

I think they are reasonably funded, it's just that they waste it on stupid things like... Rainbow police cars. https://mashable.com/2015/08/03/brighton-pride-police-cars/?europe=true

And gender neutral police head wear.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/10/police-swap-helmets-caps-attract-transgender-officers/

Note: I'm NOT expressing hatred towards anybody... just a hatred of wasted police funds.

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I think the change to baseball caps will save the police money - traditional helmets and caps are way more expensive.

Chippy_Tea said:

And while we wait for the end of pay check slavery (one day in the very distant future) i see no harm in giving the police new power to stop those who think because they have no job its OK to steal nice things off those that have earned them.

.

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I agree, 100%, and I don't think for one second that we will ever see an end to pay cheque slavery, or even any real shift in the balance of power in the west away from the wealthy elite. It'd most likely take armed revolt for one thing (which will never work anyway, as they control the military after all... lol), and as much as I would love to see change, even I wouldn't want to see armed revolution in my lifetime to be truly honest.

I'd just settle for an end to austerity, properly funded public services, and somebody sane realising that you don't HELP people by punishing them (not talking criminals here, but rather the current benefits system of "helping people into work" using punitive methodology.).

As to wasted police funds, community outreach is rarely considered wasted funds. Forming links with minority groups for example is VERY valuable to policing, building new resources, especially when it comes to intelligence gathering and building trust. If you want people to work with you, you need them to trust you. The police can't do a whole lot about anything if even law abiding people don't trust them. You just need to understand the psychology and reasoning behind things like this to realise that putting some vinyl stickers on some vehicles is actually a really cheap way of engaging with a part of the local community and building bridges. It's not all about kicking in doors and slapping on handcuffs....

AdeDunn said:

You either a) live in a fantasy world, or b) have lived a blessed life that has led to you thinking that that is how the world actually works... lol

Although I agree that there is no excuse for violent crime, or to be quite honest crime of any sort. The idea that jobs are easy to get is one based on fantasy, or a life of pure luck... lol Or you just live in one of these rare areas where that's actually a thing. Especially when you realise that "getting a job" most often just makes that rich guy richer, because you spend your whole life working for peanuts doing just that.... Working your fingers to the bone for a wage that allows you to just about get by, paying tax, obeying the law, doing as you are told. One day, folks will realise that we don't have capitalism, we have pay cheque slavery. We're born into it, and trained to obey like sheep, all to keep us in-line and obeying the system, making the elite more money and power. Anything goes wrong, point the finger at the poorest, those with the least, they're just so easy to blame. Especially when you own the media that the workers put their trust in and rely on for their "news"....

Dode, the upper and middle classes are very unlikely to ever do anything useful, as they live in the dream that they can one day join the elite. The dream of ambition, far more effective than threats or violence. Just so long as you give them somebody to blame, they're happy to carry on ranting and foaming at the mouth at the wrong people.

So, sadly, the only choice we have is the jack boot, as otherwise one day we too become victims of criminals. Given the choice of the criminals becoming victims of the police, or my family or myself becoming a victim of criminals, sorry but I am selfish, I'll take the police option. It actually saves me having to break the law just to protect my family....

I may be a lefty, but I also SERIOUSLY hate bullies and hate been anybodies victim....

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OK I live in an area its easy to get a job (Surrey) but not as easy as London where this type of crime is highest, I may not be the job you want but having a job could lead to a better one while attacking people with acid, stealing phones etc will lead to a life that gets harder to get by and helps no one especially you.

Hi!
I think that home background, social "caste", economic circumstances etc. must have an impact on crime, but many people from similar circumstances do not break the law (overtly, at least).
Criminals are criminals because they want to commit crime, not necessarily because they are forced into it by circumstances.
Overly-liberal views of the treatment of criminals reminds me of the parable of the Good Samaritan: the guy is lying, beaten up and bleeding, and a social worker passes by, looks at him and says, "The men who did this to you need help".

phillc said:

I would rather that the root causes of the crime were addressed....

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The root cause is that they are a bunch of oxygen-stealing s***heads who are only bothered about take,take,take and crappy rap music that encourages them. Never mind that the victims have put the effort and hours into what they have, at the expense of no-one. They need rounding up on the Dover cliffs then pushed off en masse with bulldozers. Sorted.

Gunge said:

The root cause is that they are a bunch of oxygen-stealing s***heads who are only bothered about take,take,take and crappy rap music that encourages them. Never mind that the victims have put the effort and hours into what they have, at the expense of no-one. They need rounding up on the Dover cliffs then pushed off en masse with bulldozers. Sorted.

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Use Bulldozers? Maybe a use for Boris' water cannons?

Let the people who they stole off push them. :thumba:

.

Norfolk79 said:

Use Bulldozers? Maybe a use for Boris' water cannons?

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They got sold for scrap (at a massive loss to the tax payer)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46258584

Gulpitdarn said:

I think they are reasonably funded, it's just that they waste it on stupid things like... Rainbow police cars. https://mashable.com/2015/08/03/brighton-pride-police-cars/?europe=true

And gender neutral police head wear.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/10/police-swap-helmets-caps-attract-transgender-officers/

Note: I'm NOT expressing hatred towards anybody... just a hatred of wasted police funds.

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I agree the caps should be cheaper, and didn't see any mention of the police paying for the car graphics - maybe a local company did it for free? Bedfordshire police has the highest anti-terrorist costs outside of the Met, but gets no additional funding - therefore other policing services are cut. This is the sort of thing that effects others if not policed, but the cost is borne by one of the smallest police forces in the country

Bigcol49 said:

Hi!
I think that home background, social "caste", economic circumstances etc. must have an impact on crime, but many people from similar circumstances do not break the law (overtly, at least).
Criminals are criminals because they want to commit crime, not necessarily because they are forced into it by circumstances.
Overly-liberal views of the treatment of criminals reminds me of the parable of the Good Samaritan: the guy is lying, beaten up and bleeding, and a social worker passes by, looks at him and says, "The men who did this to you need help".

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Col, I've tried to be clear that I agree, NOBODY has to chose crime. Lots of us have hard lives, and don't chose crime, and make no mistake it's 99% of the time a choice. I would never argue that crime should go unpunished, not ever, any more than I would ever suggest blaming the victims (another popular thing to do these days...). What I am saying though is that you CAN reduce the numbers of those turning to crime by fighting against inequalities in our society, especially in areas with very high unemployment etc. No the answer isn't buying them play stations, but treating people fairly, rather than treating everybody on benefits and scum bag leeches would be a good start. You want to help people to find work? Help with things like travel expenses to get to interviews etc, training etc. Instead though, thanks to the constant media insistence that "benefit leeches" are robbing everybody, we have people been "helped back to work" by basically having what little money they do get taken away to punish them constantly... Do you know what emotions this causes in people who may already be borderline when it comes to criminality? Rage, anger, hopelessness....

So hell yeah, I'm all for punishing criminals, I'm all for better funding our police, getting more patrols on the streets etc. However I'm also for stopping this downward spiral of blaming all of societies problems on the poorest members of said society, and then penalising them to the point of near starvation, homelessness, and yeah sometimes even criminality. Whilst meanwhile, the biggest criminals in our society are sipping fine wines, driving big cars and living on the proceeds of the labour of everybody else, whilst convincing their labour force that it's all the fault of the unemployed, the immigrants etc etc....

There is MORE than enough money to go around in the country, more than enough food, to the point that there is a surplus. Yet the worker scrapes by, the poor nearly starve.... Criminals are criminals, whether they ride a moped, or drive around in a Jaguar and work for a bank....