Beer in bigger bottles

[banjodeano]

Hello guys, i am new here, so Hiya to you all :thumb:
I have been brewing for about 25 years, but only from kits, i use bottles now, i tried pressure barrels once but was not happy with them.
Anyway, my question is...
I brew my beer and put it straight into one pint bottles, but i would like to use 2ltr plastic bottles and have no sediment in the bottom.
I decant into a plastic bottle with a little sugar, and then after a week, i decant into a second plastic bottle with a little sugar and leaving the sediment in the first bottle, but when i leave the bottle a few weeks and then open it, it is flat, any ideas why? i have added sugar?

 

[jenivida]

not sure about this but it sounds like you don't have enough yeast to carbonate the beer. The sediment is the yeast and if you want carbonated home brew you have to live with it or artificially carbonate the beer with a corney keg or similar.

 

[terrym]

I use 2 litre PET bottles, but I don't use the double bottling system like you do.
My take on what you have said is that although you have primed your first batch of bottles you have not really added much to the CO2 content in the beer since you release any overpressure in order to put the beer in the second bottle. In other words in terms of carbonation you are more or less back to where you were at the start when you first bottled since beer from the FV does contain dissolved CO2.
If you want minimal yeast in your bottles, I suggest you rack off like I do (assuming you don't do this already) and leave the brew alone for another five days or so after the primary has finished and then cold crash, which even if you don't have brew fridge, is sort of possible at this time of year.
Even then you will not completely eliminate yeast from your bottles, but that said you will have just enough to predictably carbonate your bottles.
Also I use a serving jug which can help in minimising any yeast carry over from the bottom opf the bottles.
And to get the carbonation right in the 2 litre bottles I use 2stp sugar for ales and 2.5 to 3 for lighter beers

 

[banjodeano]

I use 2 litre PET bottles, but I don't use the double bottling system like you do.
My take on what you have said is that although you have primed your first batch of bottles you have not really added much to the CO2 content in the beer since you release any overpressure in order to put the beer in the second bottle. In other words in terms of carbonation you are more or less back to where you were at the start when you first bottled since beer from the FV does contain dissolved CO2.
If you want minimal yeast in your bottles, I suggest you rack off like I do (assuming you don't do this already) and leave the brew alone for another five days or so after the primary has finished and then cold crash, which even if you don't have brew fridge, is sort of possible at this time of year.
Even then you will not completely eliminate yeast from your bottles, but that said you will have just enough to predictably carbonate your bottles.
Also I use a serving jug which can help in minimising any yeast carry over from the bottom opf the bottles.
And to get the carbonation right in the 2 litre bottles I use 2stp sugar for ales and 2.5 to 3 for lighter beers

Thanks for the replies guys......
i dont think i am explaining myself well
No i dont rack off....but i suppose i am kind of doing this by transferring from one 2ltr bottle to the next, and adding more sugar again on the second bottling...
all i have ever done is just brew from a kit, then then syphon straight into bottles and primed, this is new territory for me.
but my aim is to have large bottles of beer with very little sediment in the bottom....and plenty of fiz :)

 

[Hoppyland]

First thought: you're asking for a very difficult thing. For fermentation-carbonated beer you don't just need sugar, you need yeast. But for beer with no sediment at all, you need no yeast (unless its still cloudy of course!). So the compromise must be balancing the rate of carbonation against the amount of sediment you're prepared to put up with. If you really want hardly any sediment, then it is achievable, but it will take a long time for your beer to condition (I'm presently supping a pint that was bottled on 9th November, but was pitched nearly a month earlier, so it was pretty clear when I bottled it - therefore it took a month in bottle before it began to get a sparkle & now its great!)
Secondly: You're going to a heck of a lot of extra work with your "double bottling" plan. I usually rack from the FV to a plastic "cask" - a 25l food-grade plastic container - and let the beer sit there for a good 2 weeks before bottling. Just before you bottle, you can put all of your priming sugar into this cask (= batch priming), which reduces faffing around with individual bottles.
But I can't think of a real escape from: low sediment = low yeast count = slow carbonation :-(

 

[banjodeano]

First thought: you're asking for a very difficult thing. For fermentation-carbonated beer you don't just need sugar, you need yeast. But for beer with no sediment at all, you need no yeast (unless its still cloudy of course!). So the compromise must be balancing the rate of carbonation against the amount of sediment you're prepared to put up with. If you really want hardly any sediment, then it is achievable, but it will take a long time for your beer to condition (I'm presently supping a pint that was bottled on 9th November, but was pitched nearly a month earlier, so it was pretty clear when I bottled it - therefore it took a month in bottle before it began to get a sparkle & now its great!)
Secondly: You're going to a heck of a lot of extra work with your "double bottling" plan. I usually rack from the FV to a plastic "cask" - a 25l food-grade plastic container - and let the beer sit there for a good 2 weeks before bottling. Just before you bottle, you can put all of your priming sugar into this cask (= batch priming), which reduces faffing around with individual bottles.
But I can't think of a real escape from: low sediment = low yeast count = slow carbonation :-(

cheers hoppyland, a lot of stuff there i didnt know...
I could then get a second 25ltr plastic container as you say, and leave it to clear in that? how long could i leave it for? i thought once all the sugar was fermented, then it was in danger of going off. or am i wrong.?

 

[terrym]

Thanks for the replies guys......
i dont think i am explaining myself well
No i dont rack off....but i suppose i am kind of doing this by transferring from one 2ltr bottle to the next, and adding more sugar again on the second bottling...
all i have ever done is just brew from a kit, then then syphon straight into bottles and primed, this is new territory for me.
but my aim is to have large bottles of beer with very little sediment in the bottom....and plenty of fiz :)

In my experience you will cut down on yeast carry over by at least 50% if you rack off into another vessel before you bottle. And the longer you leave it in the FVs the smaller the amount of yeast carry over.
However if you wanted to continue with your double bottling method, I would not bother priming the first bottle batch, but would prime the second and final bottle batch at 'normal' levels, and suggest you could try sugar additions at my rates as above (my teaspoon are about 4.5g sugar).
And a final thought, some yeasts settle better than others. I regularly do Coopers kits and their yeast does pack down well.

 

[Hoppyland]

i thought once all the sugar was fermented, then it was in danger of going off. or am i wrong.?

No, you're not wrong. There is danger of infection when the sugar is all fermented. Whilst vigorous fermentation is taking place, then the beer is producing a load of CO2 gas. This helps an awful lot to keep the beer from most common spoilage organisms. Once the vigorous fermentation dies down, the beer is still fermenting, but more slowly. Air getting in at this stage can cause problems - the obvious one is wild yeasts or bacteria which can spoil the whole brew. As long as your hygiene is good, I guess the chance of a problem is quite low, but definitely not to be ignored.
I'd suggest using something like the container below:

http://www.ampulla.co.uk/Shop-For-P...ner-&-Din61-Black-TE-Screw-Cap/p-170-112-420/

Rack from your FV into this. Think of it like a huge 2l bottle. Squeeze the sides, and you reduce the airspace at the top (Google Aussie no-chill cube methods). If the beer is still fermenting, then it will fill the space with CO2 & you should be fine. (I use a large - 6kg - Co2 bottle to purge air from my maturing beers be very sure - but I do brew quite a bit so it's worth it)