Educate me about non rinse cleaner please.

[hoofy]

I've been using VWP since I started brewing last August but I just got tired of all the rinsing out so I decided to try Chemipro oxi instead.

I'll tell you how I've been using it and I would be grateful if someone could confirm that I'm doing it right. Or tell me what I could/should be doing instead.

I mix the solution in a FV using roughly 1 level tsp per litre of cold water. I stir it up and leave it for about 5 minutes.

If I'm doing a brew I swill it all around the FV and leave for a while before pouring the solution into another FV leaving me with hopefully a clean, but still wet FV.

I then make the beer, but the FV is still wet so won't that contaminate the brew at all?

Using the same mix of solution I also clean my bottles by filling them with a few inches of solution then shaking it all around the bottle so it's touched every bit of the inside. I also clean my caps in the solution.

I leave the bottles with the solution in for about 10 minutes then pour it out and leave the bottles upside down for a further 5 minutes to drain off the liquid.

I then fill the bottles with my beer or wine but there's still wet solution stuck to the side of my bottles. Won't that contaminate the beer or wine?

If I use the solution to clean any of my utensils, is it better to rinse it off with water, or does that ruin the cleansing power in some way?

I keep my mixed solution for around 4 days before I throw it away. Is it okay to still use it for 4 days or not? Or will it still be effective for longer than that?

 

[jonnymorris]

Don't know about Chemipro oxi specifically but, assuming it's a no rinse cleaner, the principle is the same and what you describe is fine. I use Videne and the effective contact time is 30s (so no need to soak for 10 mins). Leaving them wet won't contaminate your brew and indeed, rinsing them afterwards kind-of defeats the object. Not sure about how long you can keep your specific cleaner.

Keep up the good work.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Very Good Topic...There is a big difference between "sanitize" and "sterilize".....Basically its all down to keeping any bacteria down to a acceptable level.
EG...why do you sanitize your bottles/kegs and rinse them out with tap water...there are more bacteria in tap water than in sanitizing fluid

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Stopped sanitizing bottles/kegs 6 months ago...wipe them clean/ rinse them out with tap water and away you go
57 A/G`s never lost one yet

 

[hoofy]

Stopped sanitizing bottles/kegs 6 months ago...wipe them clean/ rinse them out with tap water and away you go
57 A/G`s never lost one yet

When I was using VWP, I was so sick of rinsing, I did consider just sterilizing my FV etc and not bothering with my cleaned out bottles, just to see if I could get away with it and that way it would only hopefully be one bottle that went off, or better still non at all.

I decided to go the route of the no rinse cleaner instead.

 

[PD]

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=33843

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Your getting "sterilizing" and "sanitizing" mixed up.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

The ONLY way to "sterilize" anything is to subject to heat over 82oC for 2 mins.........No chemical will do this.....to "sanitize" you have to subject it to 75oC for 4 mins
As Homebrewers most of you cant do this we just cant do this

 

[johnnyboy1965]

The first line in bold print sums this up..........You are not, and I must state NOT "STERILIZING" anything...you are "Sanitizing"....ie...keeping the bacteria down to a acceptable level
EG..Hosptal surgeons scapels are sterilized not sanitized.
If you want to "sterilize" your equipment then you have to hold every item for at least 2 mins above 82oC

 

[jonnymorris]

I don't think hoofy even mentioned either sanitising or sterilising in his OP... he just wants to know if he's using his no rinse cleaner correctly.

 

[CRoark]

I don't use chemipro but I do use the same techniques for StarSan and had no problems...I know chemipro is a no rinse solution so as long as you are using the correct amount as describe by the manufacturer you should be good.

 

[Aleman]

The ONLY way to "sterilize" anything is to subject to heat over 82oC for 2 mins.........No chemical will do this.....to "sanitize" you have to subject it to 75oC for 4 mins
As Homebrewers most of you cant do this we just cant do this

Actually that is not correct, there are plenty of chemicals that will sterilise a surface (70% ethanol for one, as is Hypochlorous acid), unfortunately they are not something you would want in a beer.

82C for 2 Minutes is Flash pasteurisation . . . which does not sterilise, but does knock spoilage organisms for 6 . . .but leaves the spores. to Sterilise You need to expose it to 121C for 15 minutes using wet heat (ie Steam at 15psi) . . . for dry heat to sterilise you are looking at 180C for 3 hours.

Yeah . . . bacterial spores are persistent buggers

Stopped sanitizing bottles/kegs 6 months ago...wipe them clean/ rinse them out with tap water and away you go
57 A/G`s never lost one yet

Well glad that is working for you, unfortunately for the vast majority of brewers we can't do that without getting infections!

Warning Some of the advice and information you read on the internet is wrong and downright misleading

 

[Chickpeanut]

I know this won't be in agreement with everybody here, but here goes...

I don't sanitise bottles with VWP any more, because I too, was fed up with the amount of rinsing I had to do. I have no doubt it's an effective cleaner, but it really did turn bottling day into a chore. Now I simply wash thoroughly, and I mean thoroughly with soapy water and simply rinse. I've never lost a bottle yet.

However I do still use what VWP I have left for my FVs. I guess it's worth it to do your best there.


Tom

 

[Aleman]

I can't believe that people still use soap/washing up liquid to clean bottles. It is bad for head retention than quite a lot of things due to the surfactants that are added . . and are often harder to rinse away that VWP.

The solution to all this if so simple.

1) open bottle and pour out beer.

2) swirl bottle and pour dregs down sink.

3) rinse bottle out 3 times with hot water and invert to drain

4) Drink Beer

5) spray bottle with no rinse sanitiser (iodophor or star san) and cap with plastic cap or silver foil

6) store bottle for next time

Getting into the habit of rinsing the bottles immediately after opening really means that extended bottle washing sessions are a thing of the past . . . until you get a new batch from an unknown source

 

[hoofy]

I'm still not fully happy with my non rinse cleaner.

What's bothering me is if I put my hands in the solution, when I take them out they feel slimy rather than squeaky clean. Surely this is what's also on the inside of my bottles when I fill them with beer?

 

[Aleman]

What's bothering me is if I put my hands in the solution, when I take them out they feel slimy rather than squeaky clean. Surely this is what's also on the inside of my bottles when I fill them with beer?

That is because you were using VWP which is a cleanser steriliser, the active cleaning ingredient is probably washing soda, which causes the slimy hands effect. Iodophors and starsan are sterilisers only and do not leave a slimy effect. . . . in fact the opposite, the low pH of the working solution tends to dry the skin out (well it does with my tender hands )

I've never used Chemipro Oxi, but believe it to be a variety of Sodium percarbonate / Sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate family, which release 'active oxygen' as a mild 'cleanser' (and a somewhat questionable sanitiser) . . . unfortunately these break down to Sodium Hydrogen carbonate and or washing soda (sodium carbonate) which of course are alkaline and will react with the oils in your skin to leave that slimy effect.

I believe that Chemipro oxi should be mixed as required for its 'sanitising' effect to be at it's most effective, and not stored, as after storage all you have is a solution of baking soda / washing soda, which will clean but not sanitise reliably.

Astonish Oxi Clean (Wilkinsons) or Whizz Oxi Action (Tescos) are equivalent products to Chemipro oxi, but will work out much cheaper in the long run . . .but should be used with a known sanitiser (rinse or no rinse) to be sure of killing spoilage organisms

 

[hoofy]

Thanks. :thumb:

 

[hoofy]

I think I'll use up the chemipro oxi and then change to another non rinse.

I live near Preston so the water here is quite soft. Anyone recommend a brand for least possible hassle? Not to bothered about price, just no rinse, no hassle.

 

[Duxuk]

I got off tastes from Milton and it's like even with rinsing so I bought Chemipro Oxy.
I use it for all sanitising and haven't had any problems.
It does give that slimey feel to the things you've used it on but after some time the chemical action is exhausted and the sliminess goes away. The short contact time needed is a bonus. I just rinse bottles in a sinkfull and stand them up to drain but am more diligent with FVs etc.
I'd never go back to anything which needs rinsing. :thumb:

 

[joe1002]

I use a non-scented oxy cleaner (cheap one from wilco, lidl etc, something like this) to clean my fv's and cornies. They then get a quick rinse followed by a soaking (violent shaking) of videne solution (1.25ml/l) for a few mins then they are good to go :thumb: