First time using Safale S04

[foxy]

No offence taken. I think that you were absolutely right to point out the many other possible causes of poor attenuation. It's too easy to blame the yeast when things go wrong . . . . . . Yeast is a strange and varied little beast, and we all have our favourites - frequently chosen for no better reason than the fact that they worked well for us on the day. I've been brewing for >40 years, and I still enjoy experimenting and learning something new about making beer, even when things don't always go to plan

As Gandhi said, "Learn like you are going to live forever"

 

[matt76]

Poor old SO4 gets some stick, especially when used in dark beers. The grain bill above has a fair amount of unfermentables, while contributing sugars they are not fermentable sugars. SO4 is a solid performer but like other yeast will only ferment what sugars it can. pH will play a major roll, also a longer low mash temperature followed by a shorter mash at a higher temperature will help to produce better fermentability from the base malt.
All this comes up regularly, check out the number of times stuck ferment pops up, 9 times out of 10 it will be in a stout, and it isn't always SO4 yeast.
https://beerandbrewing.com/exchange-rates-ii-specialty-grains/

I think you're spot on there @foxy .....

- I made a couple of English Porters back to back last year - both were fermented with S-04, fairly cool as I recall, and both were really nice, super drinkable even in the summer by the BBQ! Attenuation was low, I think they ended up 3.5 & 3.8% ABV respectively.

- I've done a couple of Black IPAs with MJ M36 - again, low attenuation, but a tasty beer so all good.

- I'm now fermenting an American Stout with BRY-97 which is not such a modest attenuator (75% apparently). BF reckons FG 1.011 - it's currently sitting flatlined at 1.018 (61% attenuation) and not looking likely to go more than maybe 1 point lower, 2 at the most.

I'm confident enough in my mash temps to rule that out as the culprit. So yeah, it does seem darker beers are more modest attenuators (in fact, I'm sure there was a thread about this just a week or two ago...). This is fine with me though as long as I can plan for it (I'm learning at least!) and also I tend to make my beers more sessionable anyway.

Oh, but just to illustrate there are always exceptions, my Baltic Porter I made last year with CML "Helll" went from 1.089 all the way to 1.013 for 9% ABV

 

[Hop_it]

As Gandhi said, "Learn like you are going to live forever"

Very profound
Further to the topic of learning, I found this when I was browsing the Fermentis web site recently:

https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_BAT_BD.pdf
It appears to be pitched (sorry I couldn't resist that ) at professional brewers, but it is nevertheless an interesting read. The sections from p27 onwards (their page numbers) are about yeast characteristics, flavours, aromas, and choosing a suitable yeast type. It's worth a look if you haven't already seen it.
PS - There is also an interesting claim at the bottom of p24 that suggests that there is no need to oxygenate/aerate the wort with their dried yeasts prior to fermentation - unless I have misunderstood something . . . . . . I may give it a try to see what happens ?????

 

[foxy]

Very profound
Further to the topic of learning, I found this when I was browsing the Fermentis web site recently:

https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_BAT_BD.pdf
It appears to be pitched (sorry I couldn't resist that ) at professional brewers, but it is nevertheless an interesting read. The sections from p27 onwards (their page numbers) are about yeast characteristics, flavours, aromas, and choosing a suitable yeast type. It's worth a look if you haven't already seen it.
PS - There is also an interesting claim at the bottom of p24 that suggests that there is no need to oxygenate/aerate the wort with their dried yeasts prior to fermentation - unless I have misunderstood something . . . . . . I may give it a try to see what happens ?????

True, almost all dried yeast does not need the wort to be aerated, Fermentis also say there is no real need to hydrate, while some other yeast producers say to hydrate prior to pitching.
I was given 500 gram of Angel CN-36 (42 x12g packs) an excellent yeast, very much like Nottingham, and for anyone who likes US 05 then they will like CS-31. Angel yeast who produce these say to hydrate but not to aerate but I have just been pitching without hydrating and there is no difference.

 

[Hop_it]

True, almost all dried yeast does not need the wort to be aerated, Fermentis also say there is no real need to hydrate, while some other yeast producers say to hydrate prior to pitching.
I was given 500 gram of Angel CN-36 (42 x12g packs) an excellent yeast, very much like Nottingham, and for anyone who likes US 05 then they will like CS-31. Angel yeast who produce these say to hydrate but not to aerate but I have just been pitching without hydrating and there is no difference.

I have tended to follow perceived wisdom, and hydrate, make a starter (using DME) and aerate. I suppose old habits die hard. When I first started brewing it was difficult to get decent yeast - most of what was sold in homebrew shops at that time was repackaged baking yeast. So, I followed advice from my father-in-law (who taught me the fundamentals of home brewing) i.e. to buy a bottle of Worthington White Shield, drink 90% of the contents, and restart the yeast in the bottom of the bottle. It worked well for me until live White Shield became difficult to get hold of. . . . . . . . "And when you tell young folks today, they don't believe you"

I've not come across Angel yeasts before. Thanks for the tip. I'll look out for them in the future - particularly as I am a frequent user of US-05.
PS - I imagine that the gift of so much yeast was very much appreciated.

 

[trueblue]

I have tended to follow perceived wisdom, and hydrate, make a starter (using DME) and aerate. I suppose old habits die hard. When I first started brewing it was difficult to get decent yeast - most of what was sold in homebrew shops at that time was repackaged baking yeast. So, I followed advice from my father-in-law (who taught me the fundamentals of home brewing) i.e. to buy a bottle of Worthington White Shield, drink 90% of the contents, and restart the yeast in the bottom of the bottle. It worked well for me until live White Shield became difficult to get hold of. . . . . . . . "And when you tell young folks today, they don't believe you"

I've not come across Angel yeasts before. Thanks for the tip. I'll look out for them in the future - particularly as I am a frequent user of US-05.
PS - I imagine that the gift of so much yeast was very much appreciated.

I had similar problems with white shield. I started using white shield on my 3rd brew in 1977 and used it up until it became scarce in the late 1980s. The only yeast stocked by my local shop was SO4, pre internet, and as a result I gave up brewing for several months until he started stocking an alternative because the beer was so bland I did not think it was worth brewing. To be honest I would rather have a tooth pulled than use SO4 again.

 

[Hop_it]

I had similar problems with white shield. I started using white shield on my 3rd brew in 1977 and used it up until it became scarce in the late 1980s. The only yeast stocked by my local shop was SO4, pre internet, and as a result I gave up brewing for several months until he started stocking an alternative because the beer was so bland I did not think it was worth brewing. To be honest I would rather have a tooth pulled than use SO4 again.

Just out of interest, do you still have any of your own teeth?
PS - There's no need to answer that

 

[trueblue]

Just out of interest, do you still have any of your own teeth?
PS - There's no need to answer that

Yep, not so much hair though