Hazey, cloudy or murky.

[Harbey]

I've just been enjoying my first kegged pale and it's bloody lovely. It's not exactly clear though which got me thinking... what's the difference between chill haze, cloudy beer and just murky ale? There's probably a few other terms and definitions. I never use finings and a cloudy beer doesn't offend me in the slightest. Just wondering what the difference is?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Chill haze is normally starches and possibly other things (cold break) that are dissolved in the beer at room temperature, but come out of solution in fridge temperatures and cause haze.

Cloudy beer is often can often be yeast that hasn't settled, or has been roused by agitation. (More prevalent in bottle conditioned beers than kegs).

I'm with you, and just ignore it and go by taste!

 

[DavidDetroit]

bloody lovely.

That comment means you scored with your beer.
Okay, time will eliminate most particles, meaning they will drop out, especially at cooler temps. "Cloudy" and "Murky" are the same thing.
Others will follow with a more scientific explanation.

 

[Jim Brewster]

I don't use finings either. If you use wheat in the mash for example in a wheat beer then the proteins can contribute to the haze. And as said above it can also be yeast that hasn't settled or has been stirred up.

I've never done a beer clear enough for chill haze to be apparent.

 

[micklupulo]

Any thoughts on this please? I bottled a part grain part extract vague copy of Wye Valley HPA 16 days ago which included 420 gms of wheat malt. It's been bottled and had 14 days in the warm and two in the garage at about 7°C. I had no reason to suspect it would not clear when I bottled it but it is showing little sign of doing so. I usually chill the wort with a chiller I knocked up but did not bother this time. I wonder if the gradual clearance visible at the top means that it will eventually clear?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Any thoughts on this please? I bottled a part grain part extract vague copy of Wye Valley HPA 16 days ago which included 420 gms of wheat malt. It's been bottled and had 14 days in the warm and two in the garage at about 7°C. I had no reason to suspect it would not clear when I bottled it but it is showing little sign of doing so. I usually chill the wort with a chiller I knocked up but did not bother this time. I wonder if the gradual clearance visible at the top means that it will eventually clear?View attachment 82861

Was it clear when you put it into the garage? If it was, then it's probably chill haze. Mine do that, but clear after a couple of weeks in the cold.

The clarity at the top means it's probably clear with time

 

[micklupulo]

Was it clear when you put it into the garage? If it was, then it's probably chill haze. Mine do that, but clear after a couple of weeks in the cold.

The clarity at the top means it's probably clear with time

No it wasn't but the situation is complicated. During the two weeks inside some bottles cleared a little in the neck but were more cloudy in the morning after a few hours with the heating off. I suspected chill haze was retarding clearance yet the bottle in the picture is clearer now after two days in the cold so I am getting rather confused!

 

[hoppyscotty]

you cant call it hazy unless its hazy by design. If its intended to be clear then it's not quite worked out as intended, though not necessarily detrimental to the flavour or mouthfeel of the beer. It's easy to make a **** beer that should be clear, clear...just add finings. If I'm making a beer that is intended to be clear I prefer not to add finings - got no aversion to finings as such, but just don't like adding anything other than the bare essentials, and with time and temperature can always clear a beer...but if I wanted to turn around a beer quickly and it had to be clear, say for a party or something, then I'd bung in finings.

 

[Agentgonzo]

you cant call it hazy unless its hazy by design.

WTF? Yes you can 'hazy' is a description of the appearance, not the intent!

 

[Agentgonzo]

No it wasn't but the situation is complicated. During the two weeks inside some bottles cleared a little in the neck but were more cloudy in the morning after a few hours with the heating off. I suspected chill haze was retarding clearance yet the bottle in the picture is clearer now after two days in the cold so I am getting rather confused!

There are multiple things that can contribute to haziness. The main one we all see is suspended yeast, which take time to settle and which will be sped up by the beer being cold.
Then there is also chill haze => hazy when cold, clear when warm.

What I suspect is that you were seeing both when it was in the house - it was gradually clearing the yeast, but when it was cold in the morning, the chill haze was making it cloudy again, even though the yeast was slowly settling to the bottom of the bottle and the beer was clearing. Had they been left in a warm room, you would have probably seen a gradual clearing over the weeks.

Then, when you put them in the garage, the chill haze has appeared again and is constant because the garage is cold. My chill haze will settle out over the course of 2 weeks or so (I'm actually photographing a bottle in the fridge every day at the moment to see it in action). So hopefully you'll see the bottles clear over the next couple of weeks or so

 

[micklupulo]

There are multiple things that can contribute to haziness. The main one we all see is suspended yeast, which take time to settle and which will be sped up by the beer being cold.
Then there is also chill haze => hazy when cold, clear when warm.

What I suspect is that you were seeing both when it was in the house - it was gradually clearing the yeast, but when it was cold in the morning, the chill haze was making it cloudy again, even though the yeast was slowly settling to the bottom of the bottle and the beer was clearing. Had they been left in a warm room, you would have probably seen a gradual clearing over the weeks.

Then, when you put them in the garage, the chill haze has appeared again and is constant because the garage is cold. My chill haze will settle out over the course of 2 weeks or so (I'm actually photographing a bottle in the fridge every day at the moment to see it in action). So hopefully you'll see the bottles clear over the next couple of weeks or so

Yes I had concluded all that was a possibility but did not dare hope for it and am heartened that without my mentioning it you have come up with the same thought so all being well it is just a case of time and patience. Obviously my main fear is a dreaded infection so I might soon taste one of the six 330ml sample bottles I filled in the hope that I can eliminate that factor. Thanks for your input.

 

[micklupulo]

you cant call it hazy unless its hazy by design. If its intended to be clear then it's not quite worked out as intended, though not necessarily detrimental to the flavour or mouthfeel of the beer. It's easy to make a **** beer that should be clear, clear...just add finings. If I'm making a beer that is intended to be clear I prefer not to add finings - got no aversion to finings as such, but just don't like adding anything other than the bare essentials, and with time and temperature can always clear a beer...but if I wanted to turn around a beer quickly and it had to be clear, say for a party or something, then I'd bung in finings.

I never actually called it "hazy" but as it happens your point is illogical.. Let's imagine you devised a recipe for an every day ordinary bitter but then when making it your hand slipped with the ingredients or maybe your scales were playing up. By sheer happenstance you have created a luscious I.P.A. Would you really call it Bog Standard Bitter?

 

[hoppyscotty]

WTF? Yes you can 'hazy' is a description of the appearance, not the intent!

Course you can it’s an adjective but also a noun. There iss a distinction between a proper hazy ipa that’s been brewed to be hazy and one that isn’t that is hazy. Personally I’d call a clear beer with a hazy appearance as cloudy.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Course you can it’s an adjective but also a noun.

Used as an adjective:

you cant call it hazy unless its hazy by design.

 

[Agentgonzo]

On a completely separate note, "hazy IPA" (ie NEIPA) is a bit odd in my eyes. A haze is a light fog, cloud etc, whereas "hazy IPAs" tend to be opaque, like milk or orange juice. "Murky IPA" or "turbid IPA" would be more accurate, but doesn't sound anywhere near as nice