All in one Vs 3 pot?

[Wurp]

Hi knowledgeable one... I am after some insights.

Kits were my gateway, I moved onto biab on the kitchen hob with a 20litre pot. About 2 years ago I picked up a klartsien 25 litre all in one, which i have used with some good results. I use a 30litre brupaks boiler as my hlt and generally sparge with a jug onto the grain bed. I never use a cooling coil, I don't have one and generally leave the wort to cool overnight and pitch in the morning.

Now I have the option of a cheap 3 pot 50litre system... I am torn with what to do. I am wondering what the 3 pot will offer in terms of quality end product.. but also theres an option for an inbird and moving into the realms of controlled fermentation... And a cooling coil.

I really enjoy beer and really enjoy the beer I make, and I do make all sorts from simple pale smashes, Belgians, imperial stouts, but I generally try to do things on a budget.

I guess me question is, what difference will the two systems make on the comparable quality of the beer?

 

[Sadfield]

None. It's not the equipment, it's the brewers focus on managing the process that makes the difference.

I'd argue in that respect, 3 vessel necessitates a connection to the process more than an AIO.

 

[JockyBrewer]

3 Vessel vs All In One doesn't make any quality difference in the beer. Both make wort. Learning to get the best out of whatever system you have does make somewhat of a difference, but mostly the choice comes down to personal preference and whether you have fun using them.

If you don't have controlled fermentation, then that's where I'd put my next investment as that will make a huge difference to the quality of your beer.

For example, a couple of months ago my fermentation cooling system was broken. It was only about 17 degrees in the room where I was fermenting and I'd normally ferment this beer at 19 so I thought it would be fine. Unfortunately the yeast really took off, and the fermentation hit 25 degrees. The resulting beer isn't bad, but tasting against an earlier version of the same beer there's some faults there - some harsh alcohol, nail varnish and fruity esters, and I don't particularly enjoy drinking it.

 

[Wurp]

Thanks, and the above makes sense. I felt as i was writing the thread that I was answering my own questions. I make good beer at the moment on my current system most of the time, when it isnt right i generally know where its gone wrong. I think the 3 pot will offer me the opportunity to brew bigger batches, almost double if i want to, but with a cooling coil I can get down to pitching temp quicker. I dont know how big a difference that will make?

I feel like the next logical progression is temp control fermentation, in terms of versatility for making lagers and cold fermenting is an appeal for me.

 

[JockyBrewer]

A wort chiller will make a difference, but it depends upon the beer you make. Hoppy beers where you use a lot of late hops are tricky to do without a chiller (in my opinion) as it's difficult to judge the hop bitterness and extraction.

If you're just brewing lagers, bitters, porter/stouts etc then you probably won't notice much quality difference, but you might find the beers getting slightly less bitter.

Funnily enough I've been looking at going the other way and getting a 'no chill cube' that I can put hot wort in to cool naturally. This is just to make the brew day a bit more convenient and reduce water usage.

 

[Twostage]

A wort chiller will make a difference, but it depends upon the beer you make. Hoppy beers where you use a lot of late hops are tricky to do without a chiller (in my opinion) as it's difficult to judge the hop bitterness and extraction.

If you're just brewing lagers, bitters, porter/stouts etc then you probably won't notice much quality difference, but you might find the beers getting slightly less bitter.

Funnily enough I've been looking at going the other way and getting a 'no chill cube' that I can put hot wort in to cool naturally. This is just to make the brew day a bit more convenient and reduce water usage.

Cubes were designed to keep wort fresh for months so if you are going to pitch next day why not transfer to the FV and cool in that if you don’t want to cool in the boiler ?

 

[JockyBrewer]

Cubes were designed to keep wort fresh for months so if you are going to pitch next day why not transfer to the FV and cool in that if you don’t want to cool in the boiler ?

A few things for me:

1. I don't have to stand over a chiller on brew day. Saves 15/20 minutes.
2. I can also defer oxygenation/pitching yeast to the next day, spreading out the brew day.
3. My fermenter is upstairs, while I do my brew day downstairs. Carrying a full conical up the stairs is not easy, and would downright dangerous if hot!
4. Reduce water usage.

 

[Sadfield]

Cubes were designed to keep wort fresh for months

Fresh or viable? A White sliced loaf is designed and packaged to last over week, but is it as fresh as loaf straight from the oven?

but with a cooling coil I can get down to pitching temp quicker. I dont know how big a difference that will make?

The difference it makes is a balance between control and convenience. Greater control, the greater the potential for excellence.

When you get told 'no chill' makes no difference, make them an offer for their redundant chiller. Everyone wins.

 

[jof]

When you get told 'no chill' makes no difference, make them an offer for their redundant chiller. Everyone wins.

Some of us have never had a chiller, but it would be interesting to hear from those who have gone back to no chill to see if they think it's made their beer worse.

I also appreciate the fermentation temperature control argument, especially if you want to reproduce the same beer over & over.
But I'm quite happy being an artisan brewer where you beer doesn't have to be identical between batches.

 

[The Baron]

I used to chill years ago and IMO it has not affected my beer going to No chill however it has made my brewing life easier. I just put mine straight into the FV after I have allowed it to cool to 80C and settle out any trub.
My beers seem to be clearer and clear quicker than with my old chill method but that is because of the time to settle out while awaiting it to drop to 80c or less

 

[MashBag]

Do you like the making or the drinking.

Making = 3v.
A good AIO makes the making much easier (a better choice, it could be said for drinkers)

 

[Wurp]

Do you like the making or the drinking.

Making = 3v.
A good AIO makes the making much easier (better it could be said for drinkers)

I like the drinking, but also enjoy the making and process of making.

 

[Twostage]

Fresh or viable? A White sliced loaf is designed and packaged to last over week, but is it as fresh as loaf straight from the oven?

Fresh, like jam in a jam jar.

 

[Twostage]

A few things for me:

1. I don't have to stand over a chiller on brew day. Saves 15/20 minutes.
2. I can also defer oxygenation/pitching yeast to the next day, spreading out the brew day.
3. My fermenter is upstairs, while I do my brew day downstairs. Carrying a full conical up the stairs is not easy, and would downright dangerous if hot!
4. Reduce water usage.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying anything against no-chill, I do it most of the time and leave it in the boiler (or Brewzilla now ). Maybe points 1,2 and 4 where general points though ?

What I was saying is that if you are going to pitch the next day you don't need a cube (although obviously it will work).

 

[Sadfield]

Some of us have never had a chiller, but it would be interesting to hear from those who have gone back to no chill to see if they think it's made their beer worse.

I also appreciate the fermentation temperature control argument, especially if you want to reproduce the same beer over & over.
But I'm quite happy being an artisan brewer where you beer doesn't have to be identical between batches.

Results can be different without being worse.

 

[MashBag]

I think the 3 pot will offer me the opportunity to brew bigger batches,

No. All in one's are not a size limit. 200l big enough?

You are trying to fix the headlamps by looking at the exhaust pipe.

The difficult bit is, the tough question about how much time do I have to brew. I would politely suggest you are short of "time to brew" only because you are talking about doubling your brews and larger sizes. Many of us have been there.
"bugger..this takes a long time, I could do double the amount, in the same time with a bigger boiler"

No.

Big is not beautiful (have you seen my mother-in-law ) and often not the answer, because it comes with new problems. There are tricks that make the process faster.
Concentrate on that and you solve the issue.

Overnight mash
Overnight chilling
Dried yeast
Temperature control
Fermentation in kettle.

More kit, knobs, valves pipes and vessels equals more washing up.
And that alone is a MASSIVE time sucker.

If you look at the process it will tell you what kit you need. The kit will not tell you what process you need.

Equally. If you just want a bigger one. Get it.

My brew day is 1½ hours, and I am involved in every step of the process. Do I watch every degree drop off the gauge running a chiller no. Would time doing that improve my beer - no.

Everyone finds there own way.