Brewing my first beer for cask

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As the title really. Only every done keg beer with either natural carbonation from pressure fermenting or forced carbonation from a CO2 cylinder but going to be brewing a beer that will go to a cask and be served direct from the barrel rather than though a beer engine.

I have a couple of pale ale recipes that should translate quite well to that format but just wondering if there is anything different I need to consider in the brewing...and also looking around the hops...coming straight from cask it will be flat and not actively cooled and my experience from the many beer festivals is beer in this format is less tasty and claggy... so looking to try to add some brightness via the hop selection, so hops that have a bit of brighter citrousy flavour, maybe even brew to a lower FG than I would do normally too.

So what hops are doing well at the moment in terms of their impact as I know every hop can have good and bad years.
 
It shouldn't be flat!
It is naturally carbonated, either with primings or because you put it in cask shy of FG.
Balance is the key, IME very hoppy beers are awful on cask and beer engine. Nectaron IPA I had in a bar was a shocker.
Five points best recipe from malt miller and watch the craft beer channel brew of it is a good start.
 
Thanks but won’t be served via a beer engine. Just from a tap! So that is why I say it will be flat and at ambient temp. I will prime with sugar so there will be some natural carbonation but it won’t last once you tap it and start serving. Was thinking upping the hops due to many keg beers I’ve had on cask like Thornbridge Jaipur and other hoppy beers that you get on cask. I’ve been to too many CAMERA beer festivals to know what beer from a cask tap tastes like so few it will need something to add a bit of flavour.

But good tip on finishing primary fermentation short. Any ideal how many points short I should aim for?
 
My ramblings & thoughts:
I'm not sure how using a cask is going to work on a homebrew scale, unless your having a party & will drink the lot in 1 day.

Depending on your beer style, on bottling day, when you taste test your beer after primary fermentation...
If it's really nice & fairly clear then I fill a jug or 2 for drinking later that day. It's still lightly carbonated from primary.
 
My ramblings & thoughts:
I'm not sure how using a cask is going to work on a homebrew scale, unless your having a party & will drink the lot in 1 day.

Depending on your beer style, on bottling day, when you taste test your beer after primary fermentation...
If it's really nice & fairly clear then I fill a jug or 2 for drinking later that day. It's still lightly carbonated from primary.
It will be drunk in a day (hopefully). Basically it is going to a local beer festival. The beer I am planning on brewing should translate well to cask, it's a fairly standard Pale Ale with NZ hops and no dry hop so a more balanced beer with a malt character, but subtle 'modern' hop aroma and flavour, so not pushing the boundaries in any way. But worried that without the usual Keg levels of carbonation and not being served at optimal temperature (basically outdoors on a rack from a tap) then the subtle hop contribution will be lost and it will just be a warm flat malty mush...much like alot of beers I've had at CAMERA beer festivals when served in the same way over the years. I want to try to get some of the hop character to get through so that is why I'm wondering about amping up the hops a bit, maybe dry hopping it or even serving though a Hop Randall.

Also regarding secondary fermentation then since it will be served from a tap then I guess any carbonation built up in the cask during conditioning will quickly dissipate anyway without a beer engine to agitate it as its served over the first few pints, so maybe no point in doing that?
 
But good tip on finishing primary fermentation short. Any ideal how many points short I should aim for?
"Good tip on finishing primary fermentation short"? Yeap, got one of them: Don't!

How many times have you repeated the recipe, or used that yeast (with decent recording)? I'd guess zilch. So, what is the FG you are going to aim a few points short of?

I've been doing it for years and I've yet to bother with that guessing game. Although some do, if you don't do anything too crazy worst you only end up with beer that's too foamy for a few days.

Ferment out (leave for 6-10 days, from start, in the fermenter), and cask with 0.5g sugar per litre (tops, 0.25g/L is probably enough). That's 10-15g per 20 or so litres. You've got my essay on the subject (pdf file linked in my "signature" below), it says "Corny Kegs" but will apply to any container that can withstand a scrap of pressure. It mentions hand-pumps but only as a side-line. And if you're going to serve it for more than a few days (3 or 4) get one of those Clesse variable 50-150mbar LPG regulators and keep it on CO2 (I reckon about 100 mbar, about "5" on its dial).

"Breathers" are expensive, pretty hopeless, and will need a pump.
 
Ah, you've said drinking it over one day! I'd still use a Clesse and just be releasing over-pressure as it builds so the beer is not over-carbonated on the day. Back off all pressure (gently) on the day. Normal pressure gauges are not much help at around 1PSI.

No "E" in CAMRA by the way 😉

[EDIT: And don't display the LPG regulator on the day! Some can still get weird about it.]
 
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One last thing!

If you are letting air into the container while serving, and there's any left at end of the day: Transfer remainder to PET bottles; don't move the part empty container. Remaining beer sloshing around in air will be undrinkable within minutes.
 
"Good tip on finishing primary fermentation short"? Yeap, got one of them: Don't!

How many times have you repeated the recipe, or used that yeast (with decent recording)? I'd guess zilch. So, what is the FG you are going to aim a few points short of?

I've been doing it for years and I've yet to bother with that guessing game. Although some do, if you don't do anything too crazy worst you only end up with beer that's too foamy for a few days.

Ferment out (leave for 6-10 days, from start, in the fermenter), and cask with 0.5g sugar per litre (tops, 0.25g/L is probably enough). That's 10-15g per 20 or so litres. You've got my essay on the subject (pdf file linked in my "signature" below), it says "Corny Kegs" but will apply to any container that can withstand a scrap of pressure. It mentions hand-pumps but only as a side-line. And if you're going to serve it for more than a few days (3 or 4) get one of those Clesse variable 50-150mbar LPG regulators and keep it on CO2 (I reckon about 100 mbar, about "5" on its dial).

"Breathers" are expensive, pretty hopeless, and will need a pump.
Yes finishing early doesn't feel right to me, but I know a local micro brewery who do that...and their beer is a bit 'meh' but probably de to other things. I'd worry about diacetyl and any other off flavours due to not letting the beer finish properly and have time to clean up.

My plan was to brew it as normal and treat as if I were going to bottle condition it, so transfer to cask, drop in some sugar, condition at my normal garage ambient temperature for a couple of weeks then pass it over to a cellar for a week or so ahead of the event. Its in May so the weather could be anything from a barmy hot high 20 degrees C to a fairly temperate 10 degrees which wouldn't be so bad.
 
... I'd worry about diacetyl and any other off flavours due to not letting the beer finish properly and have time to clean up. ...
You've got too much "keg" (and the vast amount of "American" methodology) mucking with your head! Diacetyl? I hadn't even heard of it until within the last 10 years (I've been brewing for 45). Much UK so-called "Real Ale" harbours "diacetyl" without any concern. Also, what strength do you intend to make? An average 1.040ish beer might only be ten days-ish old (from mashing) before it is served. One I have on tap at moment is past its best after only three weeks serving (hop flavour has "evaporated", beer is no longer as "bright" flavourwise) (It was a longer maturing one, 1.051, about three weeks in the making*).

Longer maturing beers are generally more "malty". Although you could experiment with your "randall", or even chuck dry hops directly in within a few days of serving.

I'd consider fining. Isenglass may not be vegetarian, but it's very fast, reliable, and is effective still if things get shaken about close to the day. The really naff keg stuff will be chilled, filtered, force carbonated and served within a week! I think that includes Guinness stout from that recent BBC video doing the circuit a week of two back.


And if I hear from you "not actively cooled" resulting in "less tasty" beer again, I'll come and box your ears! 😁



*Rose's 1896 AK grubbed out by Ron Pattinson, in his book "AK".
 
Well my experience is in kegging hence my questions on brewing for cask! I have had plenty of home-brewed beer littered with all sorts of off flavours including the off flavours associated with diacytly so it is a thing just as oxidised beer is a thing. Just looking to present the beer in its best light. Not sure anyone would say warm flat beer is nicer than cool carbonated beer - and I don't mean chilled.

Was going to fine in the fermenter as the general public seem to be offended by a beer that is not completely clear even if it says its a hazy beer they come out with twaddle like 'pah, hazy just means they can't be bothered to brew beer properly' so best to avoid that kind of ignorance.
 
Do you have the ability to do a test run (eg into a corny, but with low carbonation)?
I'm guessing you are already using one of your tried & tested recipes.

I would be looking to test :
Lower carbonation level.
How short the time between brewing & serving you can get away with (to maintain your hoppyness)
Acceptable temperature range (do you need to tweak hops for a warmer beer)
How fast the cask will clear after moving as you say clarity is important.
 
Do you have the ability to do a test run (eg into a corny, but with low carbonation)?
I'm guessing you are already using one of your tried & tested recipes.

I would be looking to test :
Lower carbonation level.
How short the time between brewing & serving you can get away with (to maintain your hoppyness)
Acceptable temperature range (do you need to tweak hops for a warmer beer)
How fast the cask will clear after moving as you say clarity is important.
Yes it is a tried and tested recipe, one of my regulars. Should have time to brew a test batch. I could use a corny keg to simulate a cask, so non pressure transfer as I'd normally do, serve with the corny keg upside down with the beer coming out under gravity from the gas port and venting the liquid port so the dip tube is above the level of the beer. Or I could just pour a pint later tonight and set it aside for an hour to degass and come upto room temp.
 
If the beer is brewed, transferred, primed and has finings added.
Condition for about a week then kept at cellar temp, delivered to stillage at the festival a few days early to settle and is spiled and tapped. Keep it cool with wet towel, jacket of cool blocks there's no reason it should lack condition served direct from the cask.
Especially in a day, in fact it sounds excellent. Trying the recipe in cask format in worthwhile, many breweries have a different recipe for their cask variety to keg / bottle so your tried and tested isn't really tested in the role you plan for.
Do make sure the cask, I'm assuming firkin is properly clean and sanitised before use.
Can't see why discussions about breathers etc came in to cloud the facts.
 
I feel embarrassed to be reading this thread on a British forum, there's been so much nonsense written in it. I guess it's the US influence, to counter which Jeff Alworth wrote this :

"In the UK, cask ale is a beleaguered product. It is considered old and fusty, and because it is so hard to do well, many people consider it an inferior product. (When it is flat and sour, the flavors all collapsed and muddy, cask ale is a sad thing indeed.) The reason I’ve been such a fanatic supporter over the years is precisely because it is so hard. It is a crazy beer that shouldn’t exist. There’s a reason Americans took one look at that and said no thanks. There are many places for it to go south, from the brewhouse to the brewery cellar to the pub cellar to the pint glass. It takes many people to deliver that perfect pint, and that means many people who can screw it up.....

cask ale is not just the most important symbol of British brewing, it’s also one of the hardest to make beers, the craftiest beers, and, when it’s made and served properly, the best beers on the planet. Nearly everyone seems to hold cask in contempt, even while they fall in love with Bavarian kellerbier (a poor man’s cask beer) and hazy IPA and rustic saison. If I were English, I’d be swanning around bragging about making the best and most difficult beer. The problem is, that’s not a very British thing to do, is it? Well, take my word for it as a braggy American, it is the hardest to make, and the most hand-crafted. "


If you can't make a great cask beer, then it's not because cask beer is rubbish, it's because you're just not a very good brewer.

As the title really. Only every done keg beer with either natural carbonation from pressure fermentings...coming straight from cask it will be flat
Cask beer should not be flat. It's full name is cask-conditioned beer - no different to what you've been doing with your naturally carbonated beer in a keg. Breweries that turn out the same beer time after time who know exactly what their FG is going to be can package at exactly the right time so that there is exactly the right amount of sugar left for the appropriate amount of carbonation. That takes skill and experience as a brewer, which you don't have, but don't think that's why a brewery makes disappointing beers. For your first time it makes sense to add sugar. And then give it time - cask beer needs time to come together aside from the time it needs to generate CO2, a lot of the good cask breweries refuse to let their casks out of the brewery for at least 2 weeks.

I have lots of thoughts about recipes, but there's three rather important questions you need to answer before even start on this :

Are you registered with the Alcohol Wholesaler Registration Scheme (AWRS)?
Are you registered with HMRC for beer duty?
Are your premises where beer is being produced for sale to the public, registered with the local Environmental Health people?

I hate to be a party-pooper; if it was up to me, I would change the law to allow small amounts of homebrew to be sold, but that's the law of the land. That's why the best route for this kind of project is to collaborate with a local brewery and produce beer at their premises, with their HMRC/AWRS licences.

But two quick comments - it was British cask breweries who invented dry hopping in the modern sense so you shouldn't be afraid of doing it, and be very wary if they've given you a dirty cask, they can be buggers to clean to the necessary standard.

Oh, and for the record, it will almost certainly be a 9 imperial gallon (72 imperial pints, 40.9 litres) cask, otherwise known as a firkin.
 
... Can't see why discussions about breathers etc came in to cloud the facts.
Because! You sun deranged kiwi (it'll be our turn for the sun in not too many weeks so you'll have chance to cool off), I mentioned "breathers" at a point of the conversation when it wasn't clear this was a "cask" exercise. "Breathers" were mentioned in the same breath as "don't use" because lack of hand pump (gravity served) was mentioned.

LPG regulators were also mentioned, because at that time the likelihood was serving from a container (with head space) over multiple days. Whereas it's clear now this is a one- or two-day exercise serving from a cask, that would normally be filled without headspace (so no point having the LPG regulator). An LPG regulator will not allow the pressure to drop below a few mbar whereas a normal pressure gauge will be utterly unreliable at such low pressure, but all that is un-necessary for a one- or two-day exercise too.

So ... get back to worrying whether your (late!😏 ) Summer sunshine is going to be quite as hot when you get up. And if it is, don't spend so long in it.


P.S. With a potentially very quick turnover of pints, it's unlikely a soft spile will be bothered with; just left out so no restriction at-all on serving speed.
 
Cor! @Northern_Brewer just posted too ...

@RoomWithABrew: Have you got him down there visiting and spending too much time in the sun too?

Cask beer should not be flat. ...
Cask beer drinkers are well in the minority now. I had to change my writing years ago to "perceived as flat" 'cos there's no-way I'm going to be able to convince all those keg-heads they are wrong. Just got to withdraw to the shadows and put up with it (or else be battered by the vastly superior numbers).

... exactly what their FG is going to be can package at exactly the right time ...
Careful! This is encouraging @hoppyscotty to mess with casks, not suggest he hasn't the years of experience required.

To be honest, neither have I (the "years of experience") but I know I've got more knowledge and ability* than many who claim to have the experience. And many breweries do prime casks with sugar rather than "get the timing just right".

[EDIT: Sorry, you (@Northern_Brewer) were being encouraging later, but it does come over as discouraging to start with.]


*The "ability"? PeeBee is a physically/mentally handicapped Loonie! You don't won't to be believing him ... Hoy! Where'd you pop up from?
 
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