Heat Source Pumps.

[old dog new tricks]

When was the energy rating done? Mine is a D but a few years old and apparently the scoring system changed.

Any illnesses?

EPC is 10 years old granted but since then I implemented some of the recommendations ie thermostic valves on radiators and replaced the stat with a wireless one that gets moved to what room I am in. Also replaced the boiler with a condenser high efficiency unit and replaced all the radiators and most of the the pipework.
On that basis I very much doubt I will get a lower EPC as the only outstanding recommendation was floor insulation.
Have to laugh at the saving and outlay guides tho shows the insane inflation in 10 years
Solar water heating install £4k - £6k annual saving £34
Solar PV install £9k - £15k annual saving £215

On this basis can you see why I fitted a new boiler that cost me £1200

 

[Chippy_Tea]

On this basis can you see why I fitted a new boiler that cost me £1200

Call me a luddite but this is the way i intend to go, if HP's had been around was we bought the house we may have installed one when we replaced the boiler before we moved in but i am not messing about now.

 

[old dog new tricks]

As my boiler is in good working order not in a hurry to change until I have to. For my a solar and battery installation would be the preferred option to offset the running cost of a HP

 

[MashBag]

Generally you can't run a HP from batteries and solar.

 

[jof]

Generally you can't run a HP from batteries and solar.

Wrong.
I think you are trying to say that on cloudy, gloomy winter days your solar/batteries won't provide enough power for a heat pump.
That's correct, but that doesn't stop you from charging the batteries on overnight cheap rate electricity to run the heat pump during the day.

 

[MashBag]

Yes indeed mains charging works, as do car tarrif or using batteries for trading or if you have a field full of solar or small hp etc.. Of course.

I specifically worded the reply, in the spirit of the question (as I read it) generally you can't run a HP from batteries and solar.

 

[Leon103]

Generally you can't run a HP from batteries and solar.

And this is the issue. They are claiming that the solar energy and will cover the HP. If it doesn't it will cost more to run.

 

[old dog new tricks]

I do not expect solar to run a HP I said to offset running cost of a HP. I do not have an EV so I would envisage running a HP from batteries partially charged by PV when possible and mains charged over night on cheaper tariff as said.
Not sure if this is possible yet with current battery technology but for me seems the only long term solution unless energy companies get smart with how they supply eg when wind turbines have excess capacity sell it to battery consumers at reduced rate. If enough people had decent capacity batteries this could help offset the spikes that renewables generate, but this would require proper joined up thinking something this and previous governments have sorely lacked

 

[MashBag]

And this is the issue. They are claiming that the solar energy and will cover the HP. If it doesn't it will cost more to run.

Absolutely. When you need your heat pump most... Its 'cos the sun is not about very much

Solar arrays are overrated too a 5kw array is a notional value. And will rarely do more than 4kw.

For the record I am very pro renewables and have all three. But the truth and the sales speak are f.miles apart.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Absolutely. When you need your heat pump most... Its 'cos the sun is not about very much
Solar arrays are overrated too a 5kw array is a notional value. And will rarely do more than 4kw.
For the record I am very pro renewables and have all three. But the truth and the sales speak are f.miles apart.

Thanks for your honest explanation and experience I do appreciate it

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I do not expect solar to run a HP I said to offset running cost of a HP. I do not have an EV so I would envisage running a HP from batteries partially charged by PV when possible and mains charged over night on cheaper tariff as said.
Not sure if this is possible yet with current battery technology

The technology has been there for a while, it's more about tariffs - Octopus are way ahead on this compared to the traditional electricity companies, such that they're pretty much the only sensible option if you're trying to do these kinds of things.

but for me seems the only long term solution unless energy companies get smart with how they supply eg when wind turbines have excess capacity sell it to battery consumers at reduced rate. If enough people had decent capacity batteries this could help offset the spikes that renewables generate, but this would require proper joined up thinking something this and previous governments have sorely lacked

Nothing to do with government - Octopus are already there, and they've just launched a vehicle-2-grid tariff that fills up your EV for free, if you let them use the battery on your drive as grid storage. (only works with the latest cars though)

But just generally we're doing quite well on short-term grid storage, nearly 3GW installed, another 20+GW has planning permission - it's the longer-term stuff that is more of a problem.

 

[jof]

So if you want an idea of how much it costs this winter.
I have air-air heat pump (air con), 6kw (peak) solar panels & 10kw (8kw useable) battery storage.
I'm in the south of England & live in a 1960's 3 bed semi that faces southwest.

From the end of Nov to the beginning of Mar I needed to charge the battery fully (& heat hot water) overnight on economy 7.
On cold & gloomy days the household electricity usage would deplete the battery by teatime (5pm)
But I found the biggest killer was power used for cooking.

With no offspring making chicken nuggets & oven chips when they got back from college/uni you'd get another few hours of heating.

 

[MashBag]

But just generally we're doing quite well on short-term grid storage, nearly 3GW installed, another 20+GW has planning permission - it's the longer-term stuff that is more of a problem.

Did you mean3gw installed?
As in 3,000,000 kw or have I missed something?

 

[Leon103]

So if you want an idea of how much it costs this winter.
I have air-air heat pump (air con), 6kw (peak) solar panels & 10kw (8kw useable) battery storage.
I'm in the south of England & live in a 1960's 3 bed semi that faces southwest.

From the end of Nov to the beginning of Mar I needed to charge the battery fully (& heat hot water) overnight on economy 7.
On cold & gloomy days the household electricity usage would deplete the battery by teatime (5pm)
But I found the biggest killer was power used for cooking.

With no offspring making chicken nuggets & oven chips when they got back from college/uni you'd get another few hours of heating.

So in monetary terms what is this?

At the moment we spend very little on heating. 1000l of oil will last us 12 plus months. It's a modern large 4 bed but we'll insulated and complemented by a log burner.
I don't use oil to power the hot water, it seems to run better off electric. For me solar is what we need to cut electricity use, the option of getting it free comes with the issue of running HP when it's not really needed.

 

[MashBag]

Stay where you are Leon.

Edit: I my opinion you have got it about right. If I were you I wouldn't risk it.
I also think heat pumps need a backup. We have log stoves too.

 

[jof]

If what you have works for you then it's not worth changing.

We changed just in time because previously we had a single massive storage heater with a fan that was original to the house. It was fairly reliable as there wasn't much to go wrong, but spares were hard to find (I ended up putting a pid type device in as I couldn't find a replacement heat regulator) & it ate electricity like nobody's business.

 

[old dog new tricks]

I am in no hurry I cut back the heating to save bills as a condensing boiler it offers instant hot water on demand but at a price.
I am looking towards the future as EVs get pushed on an us and the Scottish government outlaw gas boilers (shelved so far but Scottish Greens raised it before no house could be offered for sale with gas boiler going forward)
I still think there are big steps to be made in battery technology tbh and for me if we all had some form of energy storage it would take pressure off the grid as it expands and upgrades.

Yes massive battery farms make a lot of sense but surely a twin track approach would offer even more flexibility

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Did you mean3gw installed?
As in 3,000,000 kw or have I missed something?

Yep - in fact I'm out of date, at Christmas it was 3.495GW operational, 3.752GW under construction, and another 24.501GW with planning permission.

https://www.renewableuk.com/news/66...s-grows-by-two-thirds-over-last-12-months.htm

The thing with these lithium-based battery projects is that they are relatively short-term, they deliver that 3.5GW only for an hour or two. Which is great, with 31.7GW you are looking at wiping out much of the evening peak, but it's not a solution for long-term intermittency which will come from things like iron-air batteries, compressed air and hydrogen.

 

[Leon103]

Stay where you are Leon.

Edit: I my opinion you have got it about right. If I were you I wouldn't risk it.
I also think heat pumps need a backup. We have log stoves too.

I have come to the same conclusion. I think a solar system might be a option in the future. We have a large south and south west facing roof space so should be able to install something decent. Its more about future proofing than saving pennies, although that would be a benefit. With oil, prices can jump/drop at any time, we saw a massive increase with the Russia stuff, at least there is some sort of cap with electric.

 

[MashBag]

I have come to the same conclusion. I think a solar system might be a option in the future. We have a large south and south west facing roof space so should be able to install something decent. Its more about future proofing than saving pennies, although that would be a benefit. With oil, prices can jump/drop at any time, we saw a massive increase with the Russia stuff, at least there is some sort of cap with electric.

Buy storage tank and fill when the price is low?