It's drinkable!

[Covrich]

Good question ... :thumb: :thumb:

... and I'm waiting on the answer! :whistle:

I personally only ever made one Kit HB with a dry hop but have tried a few others

With the dry hop they are nice and fresh, I find when I drink the kit ones after say 3 months they start to go downhill rapidly.. I think dry hopping goes some way to hiding some of the minor twangs you get in even premium kits..

Thats just personal experience but hey, I only ever did 4 or so beer kits myself, a few of my examples were brewed by others.

 

[ravey]

I quite often recommend the "2+2+2" approach as the minimum time required to get a decent brew ... :thumb:

... and almost every time, someone comes forward and tells me that their brew is "drinkable" in much less time.

In view of this, I would like to point out that:

1. Urine is "drinkable". It may not taste very nice but, if you are ever in a lifeboat or a desert without a source of drinking water, I recommend drinking urine as a way of prolonging your life.

2. I am of the opinion that, after fermentation is completed, both beer and cider take time to reach a plateau of excellence which they will maintain for a varying length of time before starting to deteriorate. Personally, I have yet to brew anything where this "plateau of excellence" has been reached within four weeks; and in some cases deterioration hasn't started until well after twelve months.

3. I consider the Forum to be a place where we try to help each other to improve what we brew and I have never considered brewing a beer or a cider to be some kind of race. As a young man I was always taught that "Coming first doesn't always mean that you have won." and if you don't believe me I suggest that you check this saying out with your wife or girlfriend. :lol: :lol:

Please feel free to discuss. :thumb: :thumb:

1. When you say urine is drinkable and isn't very nice that's clearly not analogous with someone saying a young beer is drinkable as they are clearly saying it is nice enough to be drunk at that point.

2. The fact that someone has said that it can be drinkable earlier would suggest that they agree with you that it becomes better, what is your point?

3. Helping is not forcing your views and standards on other people. Some people may not have your self control and can't keep from having "a wee drop" to see how things are progressing. Some people may do homebrew because they are hard up and it's cheaper than buying what is possibly worse than their young "drinkable" brew. Are you saying they are wrong to do so in these examples? If you are then you're wrong, it's none of your business.

I really don't see the point of creating this thread; it's borderline bigotry.

 

[Dutto]

......... after say 3 months they start to go downhill rapidly. ............

I can go along with that as many beers have a relatively short "plateau of excellence".

I have cold hopped Coopers Lager on the shelf that was bottled on the 2nd of July It is starting to lose the "hoppiness" that was so prominent in August so as a "cold hopped lager" it is well past its prime after only four months. :thumb:

However, it was "drinkable" one day after bottling! :whistle:

 

[Dutto]

........

I really don't see the point of creating this thread; it's borderline bigotry.

I have a simple point to make and that is "drinkable" is not the same as "palatable".

Also, accusing me of bigotry ...

"The English noun bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person,
especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups
(e.g. racial or religious groups), and especially one whose own beliefs
are perceived as unreasonable or excessively narrow-minded, superstitious, or hypocritical"​

... tends to take the quote to a level of personal attack; something which I (and most other members of this Forum) try to avoid.

Actually, the statement "I really don't see the point of creating this thread: ..." could be seen as a display of bigotry? :whistle: :whistle:

 

[Covrich]

Unless they are really hoppy ones I normally consume an AG batch over about 4-6 months (I dont do one batch and drink it I have a selection always) most are fine throughout perhaps not their best on some of them but I kept back a Solvenian IPA which I had heavily hopped drank young to about 4-5 months and had one after about 8 and it was very good.

I do think the sweet spot with kits is smaller, again from my experience but I think they can vary widely due to age of the extract possibly??

 

[Joeyriles]

Agreed, it can also be down to the yeast. I have found that since using liquid yeasts with a starter it takes slightly less time to condition for mid-range ABV beers.

 

[ravey]

I have a simple point to make and that is "drinkable" is not the same as "palatable".

Without the precise context I can only surmise but it would seem to me that if someone is saying that a young beer is drinkable they are quite clearly saying it is palatable.

Also, accusing me of bigotry ...

"The English noun bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person,
especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups
(e.g. racial or religious groups), and especially one whose own beliefs
are perceived as unreasonable or excessively narrow-minded, superstitious, or hypocritical"​

I was quite clear in saying it's borderline bigotry, I don't believe you had any malice in doing so but you're inadvertently dismissing other people's views and opinions by creating strawman arguments i.e. nobody has said that beers don't get better when left for longer to mature, so creating a thread asking who agrees with you knowing full well that nobody is going to claim it gets worse is a strawman argument.

If someone has stated their opinion on something in a particular thread discuss it there rather than taking the entire argument out of context where the people you're looking for to agree with you and rub your ego can't see what the other person said. By creating a general thread with a strawman argument and at no point touching on the actual reasons that people have said a young beer is drinkable you are dismissing their views and opinions i.e. bigotry.

... tends to take the quote to a level of personal attack; something which I (and most other members of this Forum) try to avoid.

If I had called you a bigot for making bigoted comments that wouldn't be an attack.

Actually, the statement "I really don't see the point of creating this thread: ..." could be seen as a display of bigotry? :whistle: :whistle:

It could be but not by anyone with basic reason and logic skills.

 

[Dutto]

....... Some people may do homebrew because they are hard up and it's cheaper than buying what is possibly worse than their young "drinkable" brew. Are you saying they are wrong to do so in these examples? If you are then you're wrong, it's none of your business.
.........

Sorry, but this particular Post is really getting my goat!

"Some people may do home-brew because they are hard up ..."​

No sh1t Sherlock! I started nearly 50 years ago when I was 23 years of age with a wife, two kids and a mortgage to support; and it was the ONLY way I could get a drink!

I got most of my brewing gear from Boots the Chemists (they seemed the only outfit that sold Malt Extract without Cod Liver Oil in it) and because the kits were rubbish any brewer with a hint of common sense found an extract recipe and stuck to it.

I can say only three things about those dark and distant days and that is:

1. I wish I had known then what I know now.
2. I wish that the Internet had existed back then.
3. I wish that Forum's like this one had existed so that I could exchange
views and information with fellow brewers."​

I am still learning and somewhere along the line I learned the difference between "drinkable" and "palatable"!

End of rant! :thumb: :thumb:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Rules and Regulations.

1. Please post in a mature, sensible and respectful manner.

.......................................

 

[ravey]

Sorry, but this particular Post is really getting my goat!

"Some people may do home-brew because they are hard up ..."​

No sh1t Sherlock! I started nearly 50 years ago when I was 23 years of age with a wife, two kids and a mortgage to support; and it was the ONLY way I could get a drink!

I got most of my brewing gear from Boots the Chemists (they seemed the only outfit that sold Malt Extract without Cod Liver Oil in it) and because the kits were rubbish any brewer with a hint of common sense found an extract recipe and stuck to it.

I can say only three things about those dark and distant days and that is:

1. I wish I had known then what I know now.
2. I wish that the Internet had existed back then.
3. I wish that Forum's like this one had existed so that I could exchange
views and information with fellow brewers."​

I am still learning and somewhere along the line I learned the difference between "drinkable" and "palatable"!

End of rant! :thumb: :thumb:

Apologies, I didn't flesh out my point. In addition to that I meant to say that perhaps they hadn't had the time, or don't have the room, to build up a large enough stock to only ever drink what has been stored for long enough.

The point remains, it's up to people what they do with their brews and.... well, I still don't know the scenarios that are being referred to as it's been taken entirely out of context, so..... they can sample as they go to see the progress if they like, they can drink it earlier than you would if they like.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The way i see it is there is no right or wrong, if you are happy drinking your beer early because you like the way it has turned out and know (having read the forum) it could be better if left 2 + 2 + 2 that's up to you.


.

 

[ravey]

I have a simple point to make and that is "drinkable" is not the same as "palatable".

I had an attack of conscience and thought maybe I'm being unfair and people are talking about preferring to drink unpalatable beers, so I did a search. It appears to me that people are using the term drinkable quite specifically to mean palatable, but more interestingly so do you:

"You will still get a drinkable pint by following the Kit's instructions but as a general rule you will have a much clearer and better tasting pint if you have just that bit more patience and take just that bit longer at every stage."


http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=626012&highlight=drinkable#post626012

 

[chimpo]

I can see its going to take some time to figure out when this beer lark is at its best. I'm probably to much to a Neanderthal to appreciate the peak moment but i,m sure going to enjoy trying :smile: mighty craic here.

 

[Dutto]

I had an attack of conscience and thought maybe I'm being unfair and people are talking about preferring to drink unpalatable beers, so I did a search. It appears to me that people are using the term drinkable quite specifically to mean palatable, but more interestingly so do you:

"You will still get a drinkable pint by following the Kit's instructions but as a general rule you will have a much clearer and better tasting pint if you have just that bit more patience and take just that bit longer at every stage."


http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=626012&highlight=drinkable#post626012

Exactly. :thumb:

I pointed out that it may be drinkable and then went on to point out "but as a general rule you will have a much clearer and better tasting pint if you have just that bit more patience and take just that bit longer at every stage that it will get better with a bit of patience."

I'm sorry that I didn't actually use the words "more palatable" but I think that you will find the words "better tasting" will suffice.

Many thanks for your support at last! :thumb: :thumb:

 

[ravey]

Many thanks for your support at last! :thumb: :thumb:

So does this mean I can pour out the bottle of urine I have chilling in my fridge

 

[Jakeyboi]

So does this mean I can pour out the bottle of urine I have chilling in my fridge

Wow, everyone knows urine is better served at 8/9C

 

[IainM]

Wow, everyone knows urine is better served at 8/9C

I thought it was 37C, which coincidentally is body temperature.

 

[Dutto]

So does this mean I can pour out the bottle of urine I have chilling in my fridge

Personally I try not to throw away anything that I worked hard to produce ...

... but, okay, just this once! :lol: :lol:

I actually have an Own Recipe Barley Wine in the garage that was brewed to get rid of some extra barley and hops I had spare before leaving for France for 10 weeks.

Started on 2nd March, fermented in DJ's, bottled on 4th June and tasted last week.

At the moment it is not even drinkable so I will give it another year or so and if it doesn't improve by 2018 it will finish up as slug-bait.

TBH after a bottle of my Barley Wine chilled urine would probably make a great chaser! :thumb:

 

[Cqr]

Why would Razorback be an exception? (I ask because I'm just about to start one).

Does it deteriorate quickly? Because it's relying on hops? Etc etc

Razorback, is a great kit :thumb:
It's a one poor beer lo

 

[Covrich]

Wow, everyone knows urine is better served at 8/9C

I also prefer it fresh for that natural carbonation