Minimum Alcohol Price in Scotland

[calumscott]

So this old chestnut is back on the cards back home... I can't help thinking that it is no bad thing to have a minimum price on alcohol because in reality it's not the top end of the market that causes (what we perceive to be) the worst of the problems, rather the low grade, is-it-even-actually-brewed strong cider and other nasty fizzy things are likely to go up in price.

I did hear tell of some comentators suggesting that youngsters will start drinking homebrew instead but even there I can't help thinking that this is no bad thing - after all, my experience of home brew so far is one of a product that easily matches the commercial stuff that I would drink (and let me tell you that tesco value lager has no place in my fridge!). Youngsters are going to drink, of course they are, you did, I did, our kids will... Better that they understand what a good, wholesome, quality product is rather than being seduced by the knock-down prices and mega marketing of the nasty cider peddlars? Let them grow up knowing what good beer tastes like and the general trend should be away from the low grade bottom end muck.

And just a diversion on the cost of homebrew thing - even after shelling out on the startup kit and buying bottles for the first few brews, after three brews (one being the christmas one producing just 6.25 litres) I'm down to shop bought ale prices already - every brew from here's a bonus!

 

[graysalchemy]

Better that they understand what a good, wholesome, quality product is rather than being seduced by the knock-down prices and mega marketing of the nasty cider peddlars?

I wouldn't say all homebrew is wholesome, Turbo cider in particularly can be as nastie as any commercial tramp juice and at about 60p a litre very cheap. However given a little time and a few additions it can be a tremendous cider.

I doubt kids wanting to get p*ssed on a friday night are going to wait for a few months for a decent pint of TC when they can get rat ars*d the week after starting to ferment it.

Like all social problems legislation and prohibition won't solve anything, education and resolving the underlying problems is what is needed.

If what you say about kids turning to homebrew then we should see an influx of new members asking about 'hard cider', turbo cider and if they really get into it fo*ters clones. Having said that there has been a lot of interest in the fore mentioned. :hmm: :hmm:

 

[calumscott]

"Planning: Elizium Elderberry Stout" - that sounds a bit good!!!

I see what you mean about the whole Turbo Yeast brewing thing - I have to admit that there is a dark place in my psyche that's thinking "Hmmmm... I wonder..." :) Kilju + :nono: :nono: :nono: + raspberry coulis sounds like a winner to me...


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[RobWalker]

Like all social problems legislation and prohibition won't solve anything, education and resolving the underlying problems is what is needed.:

+1. Alcohol, cigarette and petrol tax is nothing but greed and it attaches a stigma to all of the above. If I didn't just have to buy a van to start a business with, let me tell you, I'd be riding a pushbike. Of course, the great thing is, there isn't really ever going to be a way that the government can stop you producing something that, scientifically, needs as little as sugar, water and yeast.

Good sometimes comes from this though. Kingston Press Apple Cider is one of the best I've ever tasted, and it's ridiculously cheap because it gets its alcohol from syrup, which is what a lot of cheap cider producers do. It's dry with a gorgeous vintage taste and just tart enough for that tiny little citric sting. Mmm.

 

[critch]

. Kingston Press Apple Cider is one of the best I've ever tasted, and it's ridiculously cheap because it gets its alcohol from syrup, which is what a lot of cheap cider producers do. It's dry with a gorgeous vintage taste and just tart enough for that tiny little citric sting. Mmm.

fek me! you must only have drunk strongbow then

 

[graysalchemy]

. Kingston Press Apple Cider is one of the best I've ever tasted, and it's ridiculously cheap because it gets its alcohol from syrup, which is what a lot of cheap cider producers do. It's dry with a gorgeous vintage taste and just tart enough for that tiny little citric sting. Mmm.

fek me! you must only have drunk strongbow then

:rofl: :rofl:

 

[RobWalker]

. Kingston Press Apple Cider is one of the best I've ever tasted, and it's ridiculously cheap because it gets its alcohol from syrup, which is what a lot of cheap cider producers do. It's dry with a gorgeous vintage taste and just tart enough for that tiny little citric sting. Mmm.

fek me! you must only have drunk strongbow then

:rofl: :rofl:

hahah, on the contrary i've tried everything I can get my hands on and been to loads of cider festivals! it tastes a lot better than it should considering what it is. the pear version is god awful though.

 

[Moley]

Kingston Press Apple Cider is one of the best I've ever tasted, and it's ridiculously cheap because it gets its alcohol from syrup, which is what a lot of cheap cider producers do. It's dry with a gorgeous vintage taste and just tart enough for that tiny little citric sting. Mmm.

Prices have got a bit silly now though, I'm sure it's up to about £1.19 in Morrison's, but you can still get it for 99p in B&M Bargains.

I'm not really a cider drinker but that's a pleasant enough drink on a warm day, and it comes in 660ml bottles (which is almost wine bottle size), and it's a fairly attractive bottle, and crown caps are significantly cheaper than corks, so that's about all I use if I'm bottling juice wines for home consumption.

 

[RobWalker]

Hahah yeah, I saw it in there the other day. My local does 2 for £2.50 which is good for a corner shop! you're right about the bottles too, I've got a tonne of them outside. only real gripe is that they're clear, but meh...

 

[Moley]

only real gripe is that they're clear

I only use them for white and pink juice wines.

Some goes into proper clear wine bottles with corks for give-aways (on strict instructions that I want the bottles back if they ever want any more), and some gets fizzed in a Corny.

 

[greencheapsk8]

I doubt kids wanting to get p*ssed on a friday night are going to wait for a few months for a decent pint of TC when they can get rat ars*d the week after starting to ferment it.

If what you say about kids turning to homebrew then we should see an influx of new members asking about 'hard cider', turbo cider and if they really get into it fo*ters clones. Having said that there has been a lot of interest in the fore mentioned. :hmm: :hmm:

We all started brewing somehow!
Me, gingerbeer and kilju.
Went really nice with coke and the like. I still make a batch up every now and then.

 

[shocker]

Like everything else ,if people want to do it they will find a way....as a kid I brewed beer in my bedroom cupboard ,friends brewed hooch in the fire extinguishers while doing (extremely hard) time in army glasshouse ,cellblok cider is going on in polybags in every prison ,or so Im told .Has putting the price of cigarettes up stopped kids smoking ?

As GraysAlchemy said....education and underlying issues .

 

[graysalchemy]

We all started brewing somehow!
Me, gingerbeer and kilju.
Went really nice with coke and the like. I still make a batch up every now and then.

I agree with you and we where all probably getting drunk far to young and no doubt my kids will as well.

However that doesn't make it right. There is a growing problem in this country of Alcohol and drug related social problems which won't be solved by some form of prohibition. Education is what is required and to a greater extent tackling the social issues which are the cause of our alcohol problems in this country. The latter will never happen.

I am very concious that a lot of what we discuss on hear will be read by an under age audience and that is why I try and emphasise producing a good quality beer or cider and not just something to get you hammered.

There has been a shift over the last six months of posters perhaps not being so bothered about how there homebrew turns out but more about how they can get a higher ABV or get it cleared ready to drink quicker. This to me is sad as when I joined only 15 months ago it was all about producing the best tasting beer and the challenges of AG brewing.

Rant over.

 

[shocker]

GA ....." but more about how they can get a higher ABV or get it cleared ready to drink quicker. This to me is sad as when I joined only 15 months ago it was all about producing the best tasting beer and the challenges of AG brewing."

a good point ,well made and taken on board by me.....all too often I forget that all we post is viewable to the public as a whole and will remain so for some years....I am a mod on another forum and I STILL dont think about the responsibility of posting on the web .I too could be seen as guilty of the above ,but that has not been my meaning at all .I need to think more about what I post on that front

 

[graysalchemy]

We all need to remember that the world wide web is just that and what we post is viewable to everyone young and old.

 

[hairybiker]

I find it sad that this government of ours (in Scotland) is being so "head in the sand" ish. First they stop shops selling in "bulk" at a discount = prices of individual packs reduced :wha:

Now they are trying to do a min price for alcohol. This was booted out of parliament last year, but now hey have a majority :whistle:
Why can't they see that the issue is not with the price but with education? In EU they happy give wine to the kids with FOOD, but over here NO .. NO .. NOT ALLOWED TILL YOU ARE 18 :? What happens then, they get people to buy cider/cheap plonk (Buckfast anybody)/ high gravity cr*p and get *****d. At least they aren't drinking in the pubs (cause like the rest of us they can't afford the prices ). But there is no control of them, the police aren't interested in taking them in, they prefer the easier catch the motorist.

I don't brew for strength, never have .. anything (beer wise) above 6-7% to me is almost undrinkable. Maybe it is because I have seen what alcoholism can do? (my aunt died of it a when I was about 8).

All that will happen if they do make it law is to make the criminals start selling it along with the drugs to the youngsters -"pst wanna buy 2l of 9% cider mate? Only £2 to you."

Personally I can't even afford the cheap booze :whistle: And while I struggle to keep brewing if I want to drink <good> beer then I will keep on doing it. :drink:

 

[graysalchemy]

You have hit the nail on the head it is a cultural thing on the continent kids are brought up with it over here it is seen as a right of passage holy grail to kids and as a means of getting of your face. I enjoy alcohol and I enjoy getting mildly inebriated however I enjoy the taste and experience of a decent beer or wine more than the taste of puke and a banging hangover.

 

[calumscott]

Pleasing to see that this place is mostly populated with drink lovers not just drinkers. When I was younger I was no stranger to a beer or two and worked as a pot-man in a pub before I could drink there (well, actually the between being outed as an underager and my 18th!) and all those controlled experiences of the sociallity of consumption meant that apart from a couple of early erm blips I'm left looking for the very best alcoholic produce to enjoy rather than just drink, quality, flavour and craft over ABV every time.

That's not to say that the stupid ABV doesn't have its place. I openly admit to being an avid follower of the BrewDog chaps, they are really pushing the boundaries for any number of reasons (TNP, Bismark, End of History purely for the final ABV - hardcore for the ludicrous amount of hoppage and so on) and their reasoning for producing massive ABV beers to me is sound - when you push up the intensity of any one flavour note, you really need to push other parts to to make sure the delivery works - I'm entirely sure that the extreme hop of hardcore wouldn't work without the 9% alcoholic backdrop, it would just be all hop.

For me, drinking is for socialising, fun, pleasure, enjoyment. At the point where you're blotto you can't enjoy, the pleasure of the product is vastly diminished and frankly, I'm not a lot of fun... :)

I think all that comes from a responsible introduction to drink and drinking by my folks. I also don't believe that most people got that introduction and instead got ostrich-head-sand or total prohibition approaches.

How did you start yours?

 

[arkadiuszmakarenko]

If price of alcohol will rise above certain level, there will be a lot of cheap booze from continent, or produced who knows where spirit on black market. Like in Sweden or Norway.

 

[shocker]

Note : I make some mention here of illicit spirits .This is not to condone or even discuss their manufacture or existence .It is merely to expand on a point made by the previous poster .I ,as the forum as a whole ,do not advise ,condone ,or discuss the nature of these things .

Apparently there is a huge illicit spirits scene in the midlands and east anglia ,or so a police friend told me a while back .The authorities believe it to be based around the eastern european community.....but , then....they would,wouldnt they ? The authorities ,I mean . The question of "why?" doesnt seem to be raised .Very much like drugs and other social problems its a case of picking a handy scapegoat ,often whole so called ethnic communities .From what a couple of cops that I know have told me the modern ,intelligence led policing STILL centers on finding organisations that are comparable to their own in structure ,the same as they always have....and hence fail to get a handle on them .Maybe the upper echelons have never been in touch with the real world to give them a chance to get OUT of touch with it .Im told we have a fast tracked elite ,very much like our emerging political class ,of individuals who are in charge that have done nothing in the world except education then into career .Maybe these worldly-unwise cheifs will not sanction the action that their people on the ground want .Thats the picture I got ,anyway.

Just to be clear ,the illegal spirits are NOT moonshine ,pocheen ,whatever ,they are chemically ,industrially produced counterfeit big name brands that are sold on to smaller wholesalers or straight to pubs and shops .People may remember hearing about an explosion in an industrial estate some months ago from one of these operations .

This is what happens when there is a huge demand and it cannot be fulfilled for whatever reason .As has been rightly said ,the problem is a lack of education ,that and a huge demand .Pricing the substance out or making it illegal serves no purpose but to create criminals (one way or another ,buyer or seller) out of law abiding citizens who then decide that the law is their enemy and not there to protect them and hence lose ALL respect for ANY laws .

AS ever ,much of this could be avoided with communication and joined up thinking .Some dialogue among regulators ,enforcers and end-users ,and a little genuine public spiritedness by those in charge rather than short-term ,shortsighted career point scoring would help no end . Less career boosting press releases ,more dialogue .