Potassium sorbate v's sodium benzoate

[Noodleman]

Morning,

I am considering stopping the fermentation of one of my wines early to keep it sweet and remove the need to back sweeten. I haven't done this before so I am looking for suggestions about the best method to use.

Potassium sorbate seems to be the most popular method and the one everybody suggests. However, I also read bad things about this for wines which have been left in storage for more than a few years. I read that the Potassium sorbate taints the wine more over time, which is obviously not what I am looking for.

sodium benzoate I've been told does not have this issue. can anybody suggest any reason why this would be a better, or worse option?

thanks in advance,

 

[oldbloke]

Anybody? I'd like to know too!

 

[Papa G]

There's a whole page about it here, interesting read.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/finishin.asp

 

[Moley]

Thanks Papa G :thumb:

Here's the particularly relevant bit:

A few words of caution about potassium sorbate are in order. It does impart a taste to the wine, however slight, and you might want to avoid it if you intend to enter your wine in competition. Also, avoid sorbate if you intend to keep your wines a very long time. The "slight" taste tends to get stronger over time and after several years can be quite disappointing.

Another stabilizer is sodium benzoate, sold as a chemical or as Stabilizing Tablets. Its action is much the same as potassium sorbate. One crushed tablet per gallon of wine, added in conjunction with one crushed Campden tablet per gallon, is usually sufficient to stop fermentation. It can be added to the wine at the same time as sweetener and just before bottling, although I recommend allowing the wine to sit for several days after stabilizing to allow any dead or dying yeast to settle out as lees. It is less obnoxious, in my opinion, than potassium sorbate, but it does contain sodium. Use your own judgment.

It seems you can buy a lot of it quite cheaply from Amazon, but what dosage would you use?

I'll be visiting my LHBS tomorrow so I'll try to remember to ask. I know they sell sorbate but haven't noticed any stabilising tablets.

 

[bobsbeer]

Never thought about using it so had a quick look on Wikapedia. Seems it's quite widely used but that is reducing. One bit caught my eye.

In combination with ascorbic acid (vitamin C, E300), sodium benzoate and potassium benzoate form benzene, a known carcinogen. However, in most beverages that contain both, the benzene levels are below those considered dangerous for consumption.[10] Heat, light and shelf life can affect the rate at which benzene is formed.

 

[evanvine]

I don't think "Splenda" has any issues for sweetening.

 

[Antony]

Use brandy and make port

EDIT: What about using Sodium Metabisuplhate ie Campden Tablets?

 

[oldbloke]

Sod met doesn't stabilise, it just gives the yeast a headache. It is needed in combination with with either sorbate or benzoate though

 

[Noodleman]

It appears I have stumbled onto an interesting topic :)

From the general responses I think I can safely say that almost everybody uses Potassium sorbate, as nobody has come forward to say they are using, or have used in the past sodium benzoate.

For those of you who regularly use Potassium sorbate, can you let me know if you have ever aged any of your wines over several years? If you have, did you notice any taint to the wine caused by the Potassium sorbate?

I've also been considering using Cold Stabilization instead of adding any chemicals. Are there any seasoned pro's who use this method? I read that by taking the wine down to, or below its freezing temperature should kill off the yeast. With this in mind, if I was to add the wine to something such as a PET plastic container and leave it in the freezer for a couple of days it should do the same job?

Would the freezing route have any negative effects on the flavour of the finished product once it has had time to settle again?

Cheers,

 

[evanvine]

Freezing will not kill the yeast. :nono:
Neither will Campden tablets (SO2).
I store my yeast cultures in the freezer!

 

[hypnoticmonkey]

It appears I have stumbled onto an interesting topic :)

From the general responses I think I can safely say that almost everybody uses Potassium sorbate, as nobody has come forward to say they are using, or have used in the past sodium benzoate.

For those of you who regularly use Potassium sorbate, can you let me know if you have ever aged any of your wines over several years? If you have, did you notice any taint to the wine caused by the Potassium sorbate?

Graysalchemy often tells of the fact he was drinking 7 year old home made wine at one point.

I've also been considering using Cold Stabilization instead of adding any chemicals. Are there any seasoned pro's who use this method? I read that by taking the wine down to, or below its freezing temperature should kill off the yeast. With this in mind, if I was to add the wine to something such as a PET plastic container and leave it in the freezer for a couple of days it should do the same job?

Would the freezing route have any negative effects on the flavour of the finished product once it has had time to settle again?

Cheers,

Temperature changes can spoil a shop bought wine, so I'd be reluctant to freeze it. Also, I'm not sure that freezing will kill the yeast, itjust stops it acting all the while it's still cold. I was once advised to use cooling to pause yeast and get the wine to completely clear in order to stop an active ferment, but even that then required the use of sorbate.

 

[Moley]

I asked at my LHBS yesterday and sodium benzoate stabilising tablets haven't been available in the UK for many years, they were withdrawn due to concerns about the carcinogen claims.

According to the shop owner there shouldn't be any long-term risk of tainting your wine as long as you always use sorbate in conjunction with Campden tablets (or equivalent). If you don't then there can be a geranium taint and that will develop over time.