Priming Question

[moto748]

I use a syringe as per the OP. As for the 'extra' water you are adding to each bottle, I discount that as negligible. The bigger picture for me is, it's a trial-and-error thing. If I use 2.3 g of sugar in a brew, and find it slightly over-carbonated, I'll simply reduce to say 2.1 g the next time I brew that particular beer. I used to use spoons and funnels, but in my opinion, the syringe solution is a better answer. But each to their own.

 

[An Ankoù]

Exactly the same except- I have a little funnel. Like you have been brewing for nigh on 50 years and never had a problem. Its the modern world where everyone is looking for a problem and not a solution.

No disrespect implied to the OP (I admire precision- in its place), but does he know exactly where the 500ml fill line is on each of his bottles or is it likely to vary a cc or so from one bottle to another?

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Tate & Lyle sugar sticks for me. 2.5g each and 1000 for £9.
That's a lot of bottles!

 

[BasementArtie]

A teaspoon full of sugar per bottle. Flat spoonful for a 500 and a heaped spoonful for a 750. Fold a "V" in a strip of card to help slide the sugar in.
If you're making more highly carbonated beers then calibrate your spoon for 3g for a 330 and 6g or a bit more for a 750.
I've read about batch priming here and on other forums. Seems like an oxidation opportunity at the very least.
Been doing this for 50 years and never had a problem.

I'm just trying to think of ways to speed up my bottling but also be as accurate as I can be. At the moment I measure out dextrose to the nearest 0.01g of my calculated co2 vols for each bottle the day before bottling then cover the bottle with starsan soaked foil. I'm hoping with this syringe idea I can pre-make the solution the day before, starsan the bottles on the day and syringe the correct amount in just before bottling. No fiddling measure each bottle so precisely instead drawing up 7.2ml (example) of priming juice! I agree I could do it the tea spoon way however I'm just anal for that sort of stuff.

However I do agree about the reluctance to batch prime for fear oxidation, I will avoid that at all cost especially as I bottle directly from the spigot on my primary so I can't stir it in.

 

[BasementArtie]

No disrespect implied to the OP (I admire precision- in its place), but does he know exactly where the 500ml fill line is on each of his bottles or is it likely to vary a cc or so from one bottle to another?

Sorry to admit this as I seem embarrassed now. I've measured samples (5-10) of each style of bottle I have and have calculated an average of how much is in each bottle based on this.

 

[BasementArtie]

I use a syringe as per the OP. As for the 'extra' water you are adding to each bottle, I discount that as negligible. The bigger picture for me is, it's a trial-and-error thing. If I use 2.3 g of sugar in a brew, and find it slightly over-carbonated, I'll simply reduce to say 2.1 g the next time I brew that particular beer. I used to use spoons and funnels, but in my opinion, the syringe solution is a better answer. But each to their own.

I've created a spreadsheet now if you would like which calculates it for you

 

[moto748]

You're joking of course, but as I say, I don't believe there is any formula which can predict the perfect priming quantity for any given brew, but you should be able to get there or thereabouts after two or three attempts. And the negligible amount of extra liquid is only 5 ml in a 500 ml bottle, so 1%.

Just on a broader point, what I would say is the general story of priming that I have experienced has been of the amount of sugar being slowly reduced as I've progressed. I started off priming everything with 3 g per bottle. Now I find it's down to 2.2-2.3 g for stouts, and 1.8-2 g for bitters. And I'm not saying the early brews were all gushers by any means. What this implies I'm not sure; but those early brews, with a cruder technique, certainly had more sediment in each bottle, perhaps that was a factor in slightly inhibiting carbonation, and hence requiring those higher priming levels? I dunno.

 

[BasementArtie]

Now I find it's down to 2.2-2.3 g for stouts, and 1.8-2 g for bitters.

I've made a bitter to 1.8 vol co2 with 2g dextrose per bottle in January with verdant IPA yeast and that is still great. Tastes like a cask pint at that level which was my aim. Also an Imperial stout to 2.1 vol co2 with 2.35g of dextrose per bottle and that's turned out my best beer to date with my friends comparing it Nogne Ø Imperial stout. I agree they are great levels for these respective beer styles .

 

[Eskdale]

It's all very well getting pedantic about the priming sugar/dextrose, but you don't seem to have mentioned how much dissolved co2 is in the solution.

Emma

 

[BasementArtie]

It's all very well getting pedantic about the priming sugar/dextrose, but you don't seem to have mentioned how much dissolved co2 is in the solution.

Emma

Hi Emma, I tend to just use one of the various calculators online to work that out for me; dependant on style norms for vol/co² and post fermentation temp. My go to one is home brew dad priming calculator as the amounts are slightly lower than others and I like to be conservative.

My latest Belgian Quad was 3.5vol/co2 using 3.55g Dextrose per 33cl Belgian duvel or westmalle bottles.

Thanks

 

[BasementArtie]

It's all very well getting pedantic about the priming sugar/dextrose, but you don't seem to have mentioned how much dissolved co2 is in the solution.

Emma

Sorry another take on your question.

Do you mean how much CO2 has been redissolved into the solution after being expelled by boiling the water, adding the sugar and creating the solution?

If so how would I take this into account. How much CO2 does regular water have within it? Is this amount negligible?

Thanks
Jamie

 

[moto748]

I've made a bitter to 1.8 vol co2 with 2g dextrose per bottle in January with verdant IPA yeast and that is still great. Tastes like a cask pint at that level which was my aim. Also an Imperial stout to 2.1 vol co2 with 2.35g of dextrose per bottle and that's turned out my best beer to date with my friends comparing it Nogne Ø Imperial stout. I agree they are great levels for these respective beer styles .

I've never really understood (or seen the point of) this "vols of CO2" stuff. If that equates back via some fiddle factor to grams of sugar/whatever per bottle, isn't it simpler just to say so?

 

[moto748]

Maybe it's a secret society, like the Masons, keeping this info from us proles?

 

[Eskdale]

Hi Emma, I tend to just use one of the various calculators online to work that out for me; dependant on style norms for vol/co² and post fermentation temp. My go to one is home brew dad priming calculator as the amounts are slightly lower than others and I like to be conservative.

My latest Belgian Quad was 3.5vol/co2 using 3.55g Dextrose per 33cl Belgian duvel or westmalle bottles.

Thanks

What you are doing is being obsessive about the amount of priming sugar without considering the other variables.
How much fermentable sugar is left in the solution you are going to prime?
What is the volume of the solution you are going to prime seeing you are priming into the fermenter with the lees in situ?
If you over prime then you can still release co2 from the bottle, if you are looking for low carbonation it will be difficult for you to under prime, just have to wait a little longer to start drinking.
If you really wanted to get into it you could get a crown cap aphrometer, there are some cheap versions for home brewers

Emma

 

[BasementArtie]

Maybe it's a secret society, like the Masons, keeping this info from us proles?

Oh sh@t you're on to us .....

How ever I use it only as a comparative measure when filling different sized bottles. I agree working in grams is much easier.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

This is fascinating, and definitely a case of 'each to his own'. I've been putting half a teaspoon of sugar in each pint or 500ml bottle (through a funnel) for over 50 years; very happy with the results.

But I see that some people are bottling direct from FV. Is that regarded as OK these days? For some reason I eas under the impression that bottling from FV was a nono.

Cheers

 

[Brewshed]

Just to add another complexity...... do you fine your bottles and if do how does this affect your calculations? I make up a gelatine solution and dissolve my sugar into that to give a fining and priming solution which I then add to each bottle with a syringe. A bit of practice means I now know the volume of gelatine solution to make up so that I have the right volume of solution once the sugar has been dissolved. I have found it best to add the priming/fining solution after filling the bottle to avoid the gelatine cooling and setting at the bottom of the bottle before it gets filled.

 

[BasementArtie]

Just to add another complexity...... do you fine your bottles and if do how does this affect your calculations? I make up a gelatine solution and dissolve my sugar into that to give a fining and priming solution which I then add to each bottle with a syringe. A bit of practice means I now know the volume of gelatine solution to make up so that I have the right volume of solution once the sugar has been dissolved. I have found it best to add the priming/fining solution after filling the bottle to avoid the gelatine cooling and setting at the bottom of the bottle before it gets filled.

I don't fine actually due to having Vege and vegan friends, but also I've never felt the need apart from kettle fining. I do like that you've combined the two and from trial and error come up with the best solution for you with syringing prefilled bottles.

 

[BasementArtie]

But I see that some people are bottling direct from FV. Is that regarded as OK these days? For some reason I eas under the impression that bottling from FV was a nono.

Cheers

It probably is still a no no to be fair however there are various reasons I've opted to do it this way which I won't bore you with and I've been getting decent results to be fair at the moment with not much yeast or trub in each bottle.

What I do is tilt the FV back so most of the yeast is away and well under the spigot then cold crash to compact the yeast layer. Seem to be working for me however when I've done big NEIPAs up to 10% with large grain bills the trub and yeast at the bottom is a lot more than usual and does approach the spigot, hasn't caused an issue yet but I'm keeping an eye on it.

 

[An Ankoù]

Just to add another complexity...... do you fine your bottles and if do how does this affect your calculations? I make up a gelatine solution and dissolve my sugar into that to give a fining and priming solution which I then add to each bottle with a syringe. A bit of practice means I now know the volume of gelatine solution to make up so that I have the right volume of solution once the sugar has been dissolved. I have found it best to add the priming/fining solution after filling the bottle to avoid the gelatine cooling and setting at the bottom of the bottle before it gets filled.

I used to fine PBs until I discovered that the beer would drop bright anyway. The few time I tried fining bottles was a disaster as the yeast lifted into the beer on opening the bottle.