Re: Wilkos Pressure Barrel Leak. 5l IPA Gone

[ClarenceBoddicker]

Ouch. The seal seems to have leaked overnight losing 5 litres very slowly. Came downstairs to the smell of slightly stale Evil Dog Double IPA. Thankfully I bottled about 13 litres but still disappointed. Have poured the remainder into bottles and glasses but it got me thinking will the bottles keep? It was still in the warm carbonating. I hadn't sanitised them but they were clean and rinsed... Worried to use the barrel again now after that. It had been fine when full of wherry and was ok for five days prior to last night. Bugger.

 

[Sandimas]

By the look of the head on the beer in your photo, there was a lot of gas in there, and the Wilko barrels do start to leak once pressure builds up too much as they have no pressure release valve. I usually watch for the barrel to deform, to the point where it's like an egg and won't sit on a flat surface, then start to draw a half off now and again, just to get the pressure down a bit.

How long had it been in the warm carbonating? What was your beer FG and were you 100% sure it had finished fermenting? It doesn't take long for pressure to build up, especially if the beer's still active.

Generally, I find the Wilko barrels great once you're used to them, and prefer them to my more expensive King Keg.

 

[ClarenceBoddicker]

How long had it been in the warm carbonating? What was your beer FG and were you 100% sure it had finished fermenting? It doesn't take long for pressure to build up, especially if the beer's still active.

It had been in the warm for a week - 13 litres are in bottles and I have a plastic bottle to check carbonation - it's not done yet. The batch was fermenting for 24 days in total but - as I was sanitising the bottles ready for racking it started bubbling again. The FG was 1.005 though and as I had already sanitised the bottles I carried on. So I suppose it hadn't fermented out completely. The barrel had a shot of CO2, I released the pressure then added another CO2 cartridge. The barrel didn't seem deformed - I think my Wherry had the same kind of head on it from this barrel. Learning some hard lessons but not the end of the world hopefully. Fingers crossed for the original bottles but do you think the stuff I rescued this morning is 'keepable' in the bottles from the picture when sealed?

Thanks for taking the time to reply anyway.

:thumb:

 

[stuart180]

Am I reading correctly that you added 2 CO2 cartridges at the beginning?

If there's no pressure release valve then I think the pressure would have been WAY to much.

Maybe you could have added some priming sugar when you barreled it and this will naturally carbonate and pressurize your barrel?

 

[ClarenceBoddicker]

Am I reading correctly that you added 2 CO2 cartridges at the beginning?

Yeah spot on - but I primed as well - I thought as I was only adding 9 litres to the barrel it would need the extra CO2 but clearly not! Also, I wrongly assumed that there was some kind of pressure release. Every day a school day...

 

[stuart180]

Am I reading correctly that you added 2 CO2 cartridges at the beginning?

Yeah spot on - but I primed as well - I thought as I was only adding 9 litres to the barrel it would need the extra CO2 but clearly not! Also, I wrongly assumed that there was some kind of pressure release. Every day a school day...

Ah gotcha, yeah that would have been way over what you needed.

If you're priming, I wouldn't add any Co2 until the beer is struggling to come out the barrel, then put in 1 cartridge.

I'm pretty sure wilkos sell the pressure release valves separately as well (from memory they weren't particularly cheap, will see if I can find the link.

 

[Sandimas]

Must admit that I also add a tiny bit of CO2 to these barrels as well as priming, as I had a problem with the lid sealing with one brew. Sometimes I never need to add any more as it's self -replenishing from the beer and sugar, sometimes it needs a bit towards the end if I've taken a lot of beer out in one go.

Kinda surprised that the barrel hadn't deformed at all, maybe they're making them of different plastic these days? Mine usually starts to deform within 2 or 3 days of priming, giving me a warm feeling that it's gassing up. Here's a photo to show it, with no brew in that base is normally flat:

In fact, looking at that photo, mine appears to be more deformed more than normal so I might need to take some out - Coopers Dark it is for me tonight

With my Wilko barrel, I got a replacement cap with an S30 valve and use a Hambletone Bard CO2 cyclinder (£20 for cylinder, £5 for refills from my LHBS)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/S30-VALVE-FOR ... 3f31134c76

Personally, I found getting barreling to work for me to be the hardest part of this whole brewing process, but once you sussed it it'll be fine. :thumb:

 

[desmosteve]

Am I reading correctly that you added 2 CO2 cartridges at the beginning?

Yeah spot on - but I primed as well - I thought as I was only adding 9 litres to the barrel it would need the extra CO2 but clearly not! Also, I wrongly assumed that there was some kind of pressure release. Every day a school day...

Ah gotcha, yeah that would have been way over what you needed.

If you're priming, I wouldn't add any Co2 until the beer is struggling to come out the barrel, then put in 1 cartridge.

I'm pretty sure wilkos sell the pressure release valves separately as well (from memory they weren't particularly cheap, will see if I can find the link.

Check the gas injection valve, if you can see a brown rubber ring around the visible part of the body, that's the pressure relief device. It covers a small hole that leads to the beer side of the valve, and any excess pressure forces its way past the rubber ring and out. If you keep gassing it with bulbs, eventually the ring will lift and you'll hear a squealing sound as it vents off

 

[stuart180]

Check the gas injection valve, if you can see a brown rubber ring around the visible part of the body, that's the pressure relief device. It covers a small hole that leads to the beer side of the valve, and any excess pressure forces its way past the rubber ring and out. If you keep gassing it with bulbs, eventually the ring will lift and you'll hear a squealing sound as it vents off

Nipped in there at lunch as I needed to get a few bit and spotted that they stock this one.

http://www.wilko.com/homebrew-accessori ... ?VBMST=co2

Looks like it's got the brown rubber around it so should be perfect for the job.

 

[Sandimas]

Nipped in there at lunch as I needed to get a few bit and spotted that they stock this one.
http://www.wilko.com/homebrew-accessori ... ?VBMST=co2

That's just a CO2 injector IMHO, not a release valve.

Have a look at the lid on this, which has a CO2 injector and a separate pressure release valve.
http://www.brewshop.co.nz/media/catalog ... eg-lid.jpg

I don't think the budget kegs have a pressure release valve, mine certainly doesn't, which is why it leaks at the weakest point (the bottom tap) when too much pressure builds up.

 

[stuart180]

That's just a CO2 injector IMHO, not a release valve.

Have a look at the lid on this, which has a CO2 injector and a separate pressure release valve.
http://www.brewshop.co.nz/media/catalog ... eg-lid.jpg

I don't think the budget kegs have a pressure release valve, mine certainly doesn't, which is why it leaks at the weakest point (the bottom tap) when too much pressure builds up.

Hmm, I thought if it had the Brown band around it then it was a release one (seems way expensive if it's just an injector).

Anyone know for sure?
(This is the type I actually use, so if it's not a release one I'd need to invest in something else)

 

[stuart180]

This site seems to backup that the brown band IS a release for built up pressure - http://homebrewonline.vanillaforums.com/discussion/209/barrel-problems-co2-injector-cap-leaking-tap

There are two rubber 'bands' on the brass part of the injector, one on the top (outside) of the cap, and one on the bottom (which will be inside the barrel once fitted). The first on the top of the cap, they vary in colour, but it should be visible under the thread, it wraps around the brass and covers a small hole. When there is excess pressure inside the barrel it forces this rubber band open and allows the air out before re-sealing again. This should be in place and covering the hole.

 

[desmosteve]

Try this link for explanation, esp the diagram which clears up a lot of queries
(see the pdf attachment)
They also sell the spares kit of three seals

http://www.lovebrewing.co.uk/s30-valve/#

 

[ClarenceBoddicker]

Thanks for the advice as always - just when you think you're on the right track you learn something new. Who would've thought that brewing from a kit could be so demanding (for me anyway).

 

[Sandimas]

Thanks for the advice as always - just when you think you're on the right track you learn something new.

You do :-P I didn't realise S30s had an inbuilt pressure release valve so I just checked my barrels, one has the brown-band pressure release valve, the other (older one) doesn't. Guess they've added it recently.

However, the lid with the S30 release valve is on my Wilko barrel. It's never let go, and it's allowed pressure to build up so much that the beer comes out the tap. So they may not work as well as you expect them to, you could still get a leaky barrel even witha S30 with a pressure release valve :-(

On my other barrel lid (King Keg), there's a separate release valve (as per the photo linked earlier) and that one has gone off when there's too much pressure.

 

[Dads_Ale]

Double check the tap thread. I had a brand new one where the thread had been cut too deeply and had split under the sealing ring. Only started leaking as pressure built up. Luckily I noticed it early and was able to change the tap without losing too much beer.