Saison Dry Yeast Clash! BE-134 X Belle Saison X M29 French Saison

[Alan_Reginato]

Hi everyone! I was researching some time ago about saison dry yeasts and many homebrewers swear that M29 is Belle Saison or BE-134 repackaged. So I give it a try, bought one package of each and put to test.

A lot of discussion about it here:

Dry yeasts identified - your opinions please!

The recipe was pretty simple and straightforward.

Pale Ale malt.
OG 1.031
Estimated FG 1.005
Estimated ABV 3.5% (including priming)
Magnum hops @30 min (40 IBU)
BU:GU 1.3 (I like it bitter)

4 Separated fermentors. One should use my "house" yeast to compare, but it got infected . So I just mixed some of the 3 above...

Fermentation started at 28C (82F), (let them shine!) And since the beginning I can tell them apart, easily.

BE-134 was normally phenolic aroma, spicy, clove, cinnamon...

M29 was fruit, with strong banana.

Belle Saison was a subtle spicy aroma, but perceptively weaker than the others.

And the mixed one, well, a mix of them.

I should took pictures, my bad, my bad...

I may update it as it goes.

Cheers!

 

[clib]

Please do update. Where are they up to now?

 

[Scrattajack]

Yes, agreed, I'm keen to see the results.

 

[Alan_Reginato]

Please do update. Where are they up to now?

Brewday was 02/01/2023. Usually I wait 3 to 4 weeks to bottle. So yeast still working on it.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

many homebrewers swear that M29 is Belle Saison or BE-134 repackaged.

No "swear" about it. I've had it direct from someone who would know, that Mangrove Jack repack Belle - and in general they tend to reuse Lallemand rather than Fermentis.

 

[clib]

No "swear" about it. I've had it direct from someone who would know, that Mangrove Jack repack Belle - and in general they tend to reuse Lallemand rather than Fermentis.

I am not sure they use any Fermentis. Do you know otherwise?

 

[Alan_Reginato]

No "swear" about it. I've had it direct from someone who would know, that Mangrove Jack repack Belle - and in general they tend to reuse Lallemand rather than Fermentis.

I'm a chemist and a rational person, that tends to question. Besides the fact that I don't have a biolab at my disposition, just average homebrew equipment, is joyful to me running some experiments. I do this for MYSELF and I am just sharing my personal PERCEPTIONS here, in a forum, which is one of its goals. It's not a post graduation thesis, nothing to be proven here. If it were about that, sending a sample to a lab should satisfy our curiosity. I just want to know, in these conditions, if there's any perceptive differences between them that I must consider while buying supplies.

You can blindly believe in someone else's word, which COULD have been true in some point of the time, or do some experiments too, which is exciting and addictive. So we can compare and discuss about it.

Just remember to take pictures, because the colour of the yeasts are noticeably different from eachother.

Cheers, friend.

 

[Sadfield]

Not sure if this is helpful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beeran...-de-baets-explains-saisons-greatest-myth-the/
If there's a noticeable difference between Lallemand and MJ, it would fit with my suspicion that MJ aren't doing straight repacks, rather blending to create new products.

 

[samale]

Not sure if this is helpful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beeran...-de-baets-explains-saisons-greatest-myth-the/
If there's a noticeable difference between Lallemand and MJ, it would fit with my suspicion that MJ aren't doing straight repacks, rather blending to create new products.

Good read, thank you
I can relate to the experience with Brett, once it takes hold it leaves little characteristics of the primary yeast in the finished beer. I have a Brett Saison aging using Orval dregs, primary yeast Wyeast 3711. Wyeast 3711 is the best out of all the yeasts I have used so far. I will give a new a different yeast a turn in the spring

 

[dmtaylor]

I am not sure they use any Fermentis. Do you know otherwise?

I don't know for sure. But I have educated guesses based on the assumption that MJ always repacks, then these are the best fits possible (and I believe you've probably seen this a time or two in the past):

YEAST MASTER by yours truly

If there's a noticeable difference between Lallemand and MJ, it would fit with my suspicion that MJ aren't doing straight repacks, rather blending to create new products.

This is a possibility to be sure.

 

[MickDundee]

If there's a noticeable difference between Lallemand and MJ, it would fit with my suspicion that MJ aren't doing straight repacks, rather blending to create new products.

I suspect this is probably the case too. As far as I’m aware they only repackage but there are some yeasts that don’t have the same characteristics as any other dry yeast I’m aware of.

Liberty Bell has flavour, but is a good attenuator. It’s like S04 but doesn’t have the flavour S04 has that I dislike so much. I suspect it’s a more flavourful yeast mixed with Nottingham.

 

[dmtaylor]

Liberty Bell has flavour, but is a good attenuator. It’s like S04 but doesn’t have the flavour S04 has that I dislike so much. I suspect it’s a more flavourful yeast mixed with Nottingham.

Many say it's a blend of Notty and Windsor, combining the strengths of each.

I find S-04 and Notty to be essentially equivalent in practice, but I know there are a ton of S-04 haters. My belief is that S-04 had quality issues until about 3 or 4 years ago then got cleaned up. So for those who haven't tried S-04 in a while... it might be worth a shot. I've had very good experiences with it in the last couple years. I consider Notty and S-04 interchangeable, and I'll use them over US-05 any day.

 

[MickDundee]

Many say it's a blend of Notty and Windsor, combining the strengths of each.

I find S-04 and Notty to be essentially equivalent in practice, but I know there are a ton of S-04 haters. My belief is that S-04 had quality issues until about 3 or 4 years ago then got cleaned up. So for those who haven't tried S-04 in a while... it might be worth a shot. I've had very good experiences with it in the last couple years. I consider Notty and S-04 interchangeable, and I'll use them over US-05 any day.

The last time I used S04 was summer 2018 so you might have a point there.

 

[clib]

I don't know for sure. But I have educated guesses based on the assumption that MJ always repacks, then these are the best fits possible (and I believe you've probably seen this a time or two in the past):

YEAST MASTER by yours truly

Yes I've looked at it a few times an there are MJ yeasts I disagree about and have commented in previously. Just based on my own taste buds etc.

 

[Alan_Reginato]

Bottled it on Monday, finished very dry, all of them. FG 1.000. calculated ABV 4.1%.

Fermentation temp starts in 28 C and dropped to 25 C, after high krausen.

Tasting it, was bitter (as I expected) and the differences in aroma remains in the flavours.

BE 134, phenolic (clove, cinnamon) and spicy. Not over the top, but really showed up.

Belle Saison, spicy, peppery, phenolic, smooth. Milder than BE 134.

M29, fruit, banana, spicy. To me, a crossover between Abbey (made only one beer with this yeast, a lot of banana in the beginning and raisin after matured) and S-33 (if fermented really high, like 33 C. Yep, I did it once. My house smelled like bobble gum for a week)

The mixed, was a subtle mix of all three yeasts. Very interesting.

Now, I will wait a month to enjoy this beers and update this post.

Wish me luck!

 

[Alan_Reginato]

To update!

It's been a while, but I've waited until I've had a full experience with these beers. It usually changes over time and anything with saison yeast improves a lot.

On the first day of April, I tasted the four beers with my family. My wife and mother said everything tasted the same. Hehehe. Interestingly, I was only able to easily differentiate Be-134, due to the taste of cloves in it, for the others, there was a difference, but it was sublet. My brother had the same impression.

The interesting thing about all this is that last Sunday (14/05/23), I tasted everything again and the differences can be easily noticed again. Even my wife thought so.

BE 134, phenolic (clove, cinnamon) and spicy. Classic Be-134, for those familiar with that.

Belle Saison, spicy, with hints of pepper. Smoother than the others.

M29, ripe banana, raisin, a little spicy. If it's repackaged yeast, I'd choose Belle Saison and Abbey.

The mix was a subtle mix of all three yeasts. I can't find cloves here.

If an experienced judge proves it, perhaps he could write a better review, but my senses are limited. Sometimes there's something more subtle there, but I just can't discern it, I only get the big tones. My bad. But it is only an overview on these yeasts. Hope you found it useful!