Stopping fermentation.

[Fubblechunk]

Hi all,

I'm just at the point of bottling my first ever cider brew and wondered if anyone has a trick to kill fermentation. My initial thoughts were to pasteurise but I'm sure there must be a better/easier way?

I've fermented my cider to 1008 SG so would like to kill all fermentation before bottling so any thoughts would be much appreciated :-)

Thanks in advance,
Dave

 

[brisboy]

If you want it fizzy you can carbonate in bottles (with one plastic bottle to judge carbonation level) and then pasteurise in bottles. If you want it still it's probably easier to do that chemically but someone else will have to tell you about that.

 

[Roddy]

yes, kind of depends if you want fizzy or not as brisboy says...

Potassium sorbate will kill off the yeast, i use that in fruit juice wines (WOW's), Young's do one (called Wine Stopper). Is it cider from apples or juice cartons ?

 

[VW911]

At 1008 I would think that it still has a fair bit of fermenting still to go. Most ciders finish at 1.000 or below...

 

[Roddy]

good point, mine have never stopped above 1.000

 

[Fubblechunk]

Sorry I should have specified I'm after still cider and it's made from fresh apples but will be making it from shop bought juice from now on as I've harvested all my apples. The only difference I can think of when I swap to shop bought juice would be the preservatives added or are there others to consider?

If you ferment down to 1 or even below the end product would be way to dry for me. To make a sweeter cider do you just kill the fermentation (at what SG do you suggest?) then add sugar syrup to the desired sweetness? If this is the case how would you do this without oxidising the cider before bottling (both when taking the SG & adding the sugar syrup)?

I'm not massively keen on the idea of chemically stopping the fermentation (I know it's probably used in the commercial brewing process) but from a Google search it looks like there aren't many side effects of using Potassium Sorbate apart from if you ingest too much of it. It also looks like it's used quite freely in the food industry. Does anyone have any advice about how to use it or contradictory arguments to why one would not us it?

I know it'll be worth it in the end but by Jove it's complicated to get started!!!

:drink:

 

[Roddy]

First off, shop bought AJ doesn't have any preservatives in it, even the cheapest stuff, just make sure it's the 100% from concentrate stuff (avoid the apple juice 'drink' stuff that's usually also on offer)

I've not stopped fermentation without using PS so far although 'cold crashing' might be a technique you could use (you'd have to google it !). I add 1/2 tsp per gallon and it kills the yeast with 24 hrs

I open my FV's up 3 or 4 times during fermentation to draw off some cider using a (sanitised) turkey baster to squirt into my hydrometer vial, to see where it's at. No problems so far.

Problem with adding sugar solution without killing off the yeast is that it's obviously going to re-start fermentation, make it fizzy and eat the sugar...

One other method of sweetening that takes some of the guesswork out of stopping fermentation, (although still needs PS) is to let the brew ferment right out, then add a sugar solution to bring it up to the desired SG, wait 12 hrs, then stabilise. This was advice from my lhbs, when I asked about the best way to sweeten home made wine, but the principle will hold for cider too. Apparently, the 12 hour period allows the sugar solution to 'invert' (not taste like sugar), but not to start fermenting proper. Advantages of that are you can leave the cider to ferment right out so you don't lose any abv as you would stopping early.

I'm sure he wasn't making it up but I just haven't got round to trying it for myself yet. I will make a point of doing this with my next wine!

 

[Fubblechunk]

Thanks Roddy, that's great advice. I'll have to Google a few of your acronyms though!

Also thanks for the Google docs you've provided, I've had a good look at them and your setup looks great from your photos :-)

One last question, how do you clean and sanitise your bottles? I've been doing this by washing the bottles with soapy water, rinsing them then sanitising them with StarSan. It works OK but to be honest I've switched from .5l Grolsch type bottles to wine bottles as they're bigger and I don't have to do as many. Any advice would be appreciated as this does take quite a while and is my pain point in the whole experience.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Thanks Roddy, that's great advice. I'll have to Google a few of your acronyms though

Use the Glossary tab at the top of the page :thumb: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/glossary.php

 

[Roddy]

Thanks Roddy, that's great advice. I'll have to Google a few of your acronyms though!

Also thanks for the Google docs you've provided, I've had a good look at them and your setup looks great from your photos :-)

One last question, how do you clean and sanitise your bottles? I've been doing this by washing the bottles with soapy water, rinsing them then sanitising them with StarSan. It works OK but to be honest I've switched from .5l Grolsch type bottles to wine bottles as they're bigger and I don't have to do as many. Any advice would be appreciated as this does take quite a while and is my pain point in the whole experience.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

yeh, bottle care... hmm probably something I spend most of my time on overall I reckon.....

What I do for all wine type bottles (1l/2l plastics)

1. After using, rinse thoroughly and spray a squirt of starsan solution in, and put away to store until next bottling day
2. When bottling, fill sink/basin with starsan solution and give them a good sloosh, then stick on bottle tree to rinse a bit

Grolschies or 500ml pets I do the same, but have a bottle cleaner thing that I use instead of just slooshing the starsan in the bottles

http://www.brewstore.co.uk/bottle-rinser-to-fit-80-bottle-drainer

no doubt a pain in the rear

 

[Fubblechunk]

Great idea Roddy.:thumb:

I've been fully washing with a bottle brush then rinsing all bottles after use, corking them then storing. I then repeat that process on bottle day before sterilising them, probably a bit overkill after reading what you've been doing!

I've been looking around to see what I can do to minimise the pain on bottle day and I've found Kilner do 1l wide rimmed screw top preserving jars. They're not cheap but I think I might give these a go to see if it saves time and lets be honest, who stops at half a litre when they're drinking their own homebrew :party:

I think I'm going to give beer a go next time, do you know if Potassium Sorbate will work the same with that or do you have to use something else for grain based brews?

 

[Roddy]

Great idea Roddy.:thumb:

I've been fully washing with a bottle brush then rinsing all bottles after use, corking them then storing. I then repeat that process on bottle day before sterilising them, probably a bit overkill after reading what you've been doing!

I've been looking around to see what I can do to minimise the pain on bottle day and I've found Kilner do 1l wide rimmed screw top preserving jars. They're not cheap but I think I might give these a go to see if it saves time and lets be honest, who stops at half a litre when they're drinking their own homebrew :party:

I think I'm going to give beer a go next time, do you know if Potassium Sorbate will work the same with that or do you have to use something else for grain based brews?

A quick google says that Potassium Sorbate 'can' be used on beer, but not typically.. you might have to put your head round door of the beer making forum for that one....

I made a coopers lager once (only because I got the kit included in the FX set etc... wasn't bad but not rushing to do another, although I'm tempted to try a stout kit or something like that

 

[chewie]

Great idea Roddy.:thumb:

I've been fully washing with a bottle brush then rinsing all bottles after use, corking them then storing. I then repeat that process on bottle day before sterilising them, probably a bit overkill after reading what you've been doing!

I've been looking around to see what I can do to minimise the pain on bottle day and I've found Kilner do 1l wide rimmed screw top preserving jars. They're not cheap but I think I might give these a go to see if it saves time and lets be honest, who stops at half a litre when they're drinking their own homebrew :party:

I think I'm going to give beer a go next time, do you know if Potassium Sorbate will work the same with that or do you have to use something else for grain based brews?

Typically with beer you want fizz and beer bottles/kegs etc can handle the extra pressure from adding carbonation drops or priming sugars, adding sorbate to beer will most likely prevent any batch/bottle priming taking place and impact quite a bit on your beers carbonation/head. Most wine bottles can't handle pressure (glass to thin) which is why most folk prefer to stop any further fermentation taking place, nothing worse than having random spontaneously exploding glass bottles.

 

[Fubblechunk]

Thanks Chewie,

I just had a thought of creating a flatter beer rather than a fizzy lager as I'm not a big fan of fizzy lagers.

I might just give it a go with half primed (in proper bottles) and the other half not to see what happens :-)