Storage Heaters

[snail59]

Some of you will have been following the are we aren't we moving story for the past 12 months. Well as things stand we may be moving AGAIN :lol: . We now have another buyer for our bungalow (the 4th in a year). The house we are in the process of buying this time has old style storage heaters which I am thinking of changing them to modern electric radiators or underfloor ribbon mats. I would like to use the existing wiring for the storage heaters to wire the new heating into. Anyone know how big a job is it to get the electrics changed from Economy 7 onto a 24hr system.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

Do you actually have to have anything changed. I think it's just the way they bill that is different.

On Economy 7 you have 2 meters, one cuts in at night, the other cuts in during the day, it's just a way of seeing how much you are using in the day compared to in the night.

I think all you need to do is get on a non Economy 7 deal, and then you would be billed the same amount for the electricity you use irrespective of whether it is counted on the night meter or the day meter.

I could be wrong, these are just my thoughts as someone who has no knowledge of electrics or how electric companies operate.

 

[snail59]

From what I can work out Steve the Storage Heaters are on a separate circuit that is only on for 7 hours a night. The whole house gets the same reduced rate at night but the storage heaters are only switched on for 7 hours. So if you don't have the system changed anything wired to the storage system would only come on for 7 hours a night.

 

[shocker]

Must be different to our old system .We had storage heaters at the farm which we replaced with oil fired central with thermostatic rads .We left all the wiring in as you never know when you may want some hefty supply somewhere .Anyway ,we dont have a timer just 2 meters ,low and high ,and all the power use seems to go on the E7 low meter during those hours whatever the circuit its used on .F'r'instance ,when lambing we used to have floodlights and heaters running in the barn all night and that went on the low meter during E7 hours despite being on a totally different circuit ,fusebox even.

HOWEVER ,what with all the deregulation and tariffs and so on it could be quite another story elsewhere.

One thing worth bearing in mind is that a storage heater layed on its side make a good gentle heat source for brewing purposes ,sitting FVs on etc .It is ,after all ,just an oven element in a block of concrete .Might be a cheap way to go ,brew wise.....

 

[sheffieldlad]

If you have a 'True' economy 7 system as Steve suggested, you will have 2 seperate meters and probably 2 seperate Fuse boards. One for storage heater circuits and one for the rest of the house.

When I have taken storage heaters out for customers in the past we have just disconnected the storage heater board and advised the customer to call their local authority to have the meter disconnected.

If you have this setup it wouldn't be hard to use the existing wiring to resupply the circuits.
You can just get a sparky to:

a) re connect them to the existing fuseboard if it's suitable and has space or..
b) fit a small sub board, split the mains using a henly block and run two boards. Again, one for the heaters, one for the rest of the house.

Under floor heating is the way to go in kitchens and any other room with a hard floor.

Electric heaters everywhere else.

Bare in mind that no qualified electrician will alter or add to any circuits if they are not protected by an RCD and if your water / gas (Presuming their is a gas supply) is not 'bonded.'

Cross bonding on boilers is not enforced anymore so don't let someone tell you that would be an issue.

A picture of your Fuseboard/meter(s) would help me give you better advice.

-Paul

 

[Runwell-Steve]

Oh yes, I see now, I've just googled them and learnt something, sorry about my rubbish advise earlier then.

 

[shocker]

Wow ! Sheff ,I knew the wiring in our old farnhouse was a bit cowboy but I didnt realise it was quite as shoddy as all that until I read your post .Im glad someone knows what they are talking about because I evidently dont :shock: :wha:

 

[snail59]

Oh yes, I see now, I've just googled them and learnt something, sorry about my rubbish advise earlier then.

:lol: :lol:

Thanks Paul. Not got the house yet so cant put up any pic's. Only gas is bottled for the cooker. The house is about 16 years old and from what I can remember there is only one fuse board (CBs in the garage) and didnt look at the meter that closely but it is in a white box in the entrance porch. Think I will have to contact the agents and get more info. I take it you are an Electician Paul?. For a CARPETED room 14' 3" X 11' 10" would you reccomend UNDERFLOOR heating (THIS ROOM WILL ALSO HAVE A WOOD BURNER).

 

[sheffieldlad]

Wow ! Sheff ,I knew the wiring in our old farnhouse was a bit cowboy but I didnt realise it was quite as shoddy as all that until I read your post .Im glad someone knows what they are talking about because I evidently dont :shock: :wha:

ha ha I'm not suggesting anybodies wiring is shoddy mate, just pointing out what snail needs to know :)
Too often we walk into a customers house and start talking about things like RCD's and main service bonding and we are treated with suspicion.
Luckily, we got hold of a load of leaflets describing the legislation form the NICEIC which we can leave customers to read so they know we're not trying to create unnecessary work to add 'value' to the job.

Basically, if RCD's and main service bonding is not in place, we have to remedy that before we undertake any alterations.

I didn't want snail to be in the position where he thinks the sparky is trying to squeeze him so I thought I'd explain it.


@Snail, I should have added. If you don't have a seperate fuse board and those circuits are only energised at night then they are on a timer somewhere.

-Paul

 

[sheffieldlad]

Thanks Paul. Not got the house yet so cant put up any pic's. Only gas is bottled for the cooker. The house is about 16 years old and from what I can remember there is only one fuse board (CBs in the garage) and didnt look at the meter that closely but it is in a white box in the entrance porch. Think I will have to contact the agents and get more info. I take it you are an Electician Paul?. For a CARPETED room 14' 3" X 11' 10" would you reccomend UNDERFLOOR heating (THIS ROOM WILL ALSO HAVE A WOOD BURNER).[/quote]

It sounds like the circuits could be on timers.
I wouldn't install under floor heating in a room like that mate, carpet won't hold the heat. it will be a waste.
I'm not sure if you can buy kits for under carpets. I've never seen one but then again I've never been asked about one before.
All the ones I've seen are under tiled floors.
Bare in mind you shouldn't put the matt or cable for the heating under units, baths etc. It's wasted heat.

As long as you have a fair bit of space round the sides of the wood burner that should kick out loads of heat.

 

[snail59]

Paul you can get UNDER CARPET heating mats. But I was looking at ELECTRIC RADIATORS. If the system is on a timer what would that mean. Im looking to take out the Storage heaters and basicly plug the new Radiators in at the point where the Storage heaters were connected. Is that possable.

 

[shocker]

Second that on the woodburner ....just installed mine into the my temporary lager-loving landlords place ,a bungalow/chalet affair, and its the sides and back that give off the most radiant heat .Where I had it before it was on an island away from the walls so gave off all round ,also I only had the outer flue start about a foot short of the ceiling so the inner was exposed and gave off incredible amounts . Dangerous if you have pets or kids around though .

All too often I have seen freestanding type burners shoved into fireplaces to take advantage of the chimney as a flue .Trouble is that much of the radiant heat is then lost .True ,in an older well built house the chimney will act as a storage heater but often they are not built with enough bulk to act this way . The one I just did I built reflectors onto the corner sites walls by using 3x1 prep ,rockwool and some shiney ally sheet that I had a roll of left over .It makes a hell of a difference....and its shiney ! :party:

@ Sheff - no apology needed mate ,Im just pleased ,again ,at the wealth of knowledge and goodwill on this forum :grin:

 

[46.philh]

We moved into our house a few years ago which had Storage Heaters in before we gutted it .

Put them on ebay, we got surprise small fortune for them

 

[sheffieldlad]

Paul you can get UNDER CARPET heating mats. But I was looking at ELECTRIC RADIATORS. If the system is on a timer what would that mean. Im looking to take out the Storage heaters and basicly plug the new Radiators in at the point where the Storage heaters were connected. Is that possable.

I've never used under carpet matts. I honestly don't know if they are any good or how efficient they are.

I'll ask some of the guys I work with and get back to you on that one.
If the heaters run on timers the timers need to be taken out otherwise your new heating will only operate at night.
You don't want the house heating itself up while you're tucked up in the scratcher.

It may be that the storage heaters had timers built in which would be best case scenario.
If they are elsewhere it's not the end of the world.
Without looking it's impossible to say.

I can't see why your plan to plug new heating in where the storage heaters isn't possible and quite easy to achieve.

-Paul

 

[sheffieldlad]

We moved into our house a few years ago which had Storage Heaters in before we gutted it .

Put them on ebay, we got surprise small fortune for them

They do fetch a good few quid but they're havy to lift.

 

[sheffieldlad]

Second that on the woodburner ....just installed mine into the my temporary lager-loving landlords place ,a bungalow/chalet affair, and its the sides and back that give off the most radiant heat .Where I had it before it was on an island away from the walls so gave off all round ,also I only had the outer flue start about a foot short of the ceiling so the inner was exposed and gave off incredible amounts . Dangerous if you have pets or kids around though .

All too often I have seen freestanding type burners shoved into fireplaces to take advantage of the chimney as a flue .Trouble is that much of the radiant heat is then lost .True ,in an older well built house the chimney will act as a storage heater but often they are not built with enough bulk to act this way . The one I just did I built reflectors onto the corner sites walls by using 3x1 prep ,rockwool and some shiney ally sheet that I had a roll of left over .It makes a hell of a difference....and its shiney ! :party:

@ Sheff - no apology needed mate ,Im just pleased ,again ,at the wealth of knowledge and goodwill on this forum :grin:

A friend has one stuffed into the fireplace. He didn't realise when he installed it. It gives off bugger all heat.

Another mate has one with nothing round the sides, only covered at the back so one of the kids doesn't get round the back. That bloody thing is so hot it's untrue.

I had a drink with him in his living room one night. I'd only had 2 cans of guinness and I could see 5 pink elephants and 3 of those had died of heat exhaustion!!!

-Paul

 

[snail59]

We moved into our house a few years ago which had Storage Heaters in before we gutted it .

Put them on ebay, we got surprise small fortune for them

That could be a bonus :thumb:

I've never used under carpet matts. I honestly don't know if they are any good or how efficient they are.

I'll ask some of the guys I work with and get back to you on that one.
You don't want the house heating itself up while you're tucked up in the scratcher.

It may be that the storage heaters had timers built in which would be best case scenario.

I can't see why your plan to plug new heating in where the storage heaters isn't possible and quite easy to achieve.

-Paul

Thanks Paul appreciate that :clap: . Lets hope for the best case ay

 

[sheffieldlad]

We moved into our house a few years ago which had Storage Heaters in before we gutted it .

Put them on ebay, we got surprise small fortune for them

That could be a bonus :thumb:

I've never used under carpet matts. I honestly don't know if they are any good or how efficient they are.

I'll ask some of the guys I work with and get back to you on that one.
You don't want the house heating itself up while you're tucked up in the scratcher.

It may be that the storage heaters had timers built in which would be best case scenario.

I can't see why your plan to plug new heating in where the storage heaters isn't possible and quite easy to achieve.

-Paul

Thanks Paul appreciate that :clap: . Lets hope for the best case ay

No problem. Hope it all goes well.

-Paul

 

[shocker]

A friend has one stuffed into the fireplace. He didn't realise when he installed it. It gives off bugger all heat.

couple of flue bends from machinemart ,some paving slabs and out into the room it comes....leaving a nice airing cupboard/primary fermenting area in the fireplace !

Another mate has one with nothing round the sides, only covered at the back so one of the kids doesn't get round the back. That bloody thing is so hot it's untrue.

I know the feeling....the hot one !

I had a drink with him in his living room one night. I'd only had 2 cans of guinness and I could see 5 pink elephants and 3 of those had died of heat exhaustion!!!

:clap: :rofl: :rofl: :thumb:

-Paul[/quote]