Turbo cider "Yuck"

[Andyhull]

Hi all,

I made some turbo cider last year and tried it on several occations allowing a good lapse of time betwiin trials.

So it's was yuck when it was first brewed, it was yuck when it was 6 months old and it was yuck last night.
It's really weak in taste and seems overly alcoholic, i have 4 bottles of the stuff and am contemplating slinging it down the sink as noone that has tried it like it.

Have i done something wrong with it or is this how it's suposed to be?

Recipe:-

4.5L of pure apple juice
1tsp wine yeast

 

[graysalchemy]

The reason why it is yuck is because you have no tannin or malic acid in it. The reason why these need to be added is because you are using juice made from dessert apples and not cider apples. Cider apples have far higher concentrations of malic acid and tannin. Both these are major flavour contributers to cider. So you need to add 1 tsp of malic per gallon and 1 tsp of tannin per gallon ( or a cup of very very stong tea which is undrinkable). A cider yeast is also more preferential, I cultured one from a bottle of weston's Old rosie cider which appears to be bottle conditioned and has a layer of viable yeast in the bottom of it.

Finally you are also best adding 1 tsp of pectolase if you want clear cider.

Hope that helps :thumb:

 

[Springer]

As Grays says, it is very good when done properly, don't give up on it. Have another go following the wise advice
S

 

[Andyhull]

Hi Graham,

Sorry, i did add pectolase but not the other 2.
I have a tub of tannin in my kit but not malic acid only citric.

Would you say it's worth brewing?

I'll sling the other stuff.

Andy

 

[graysalchemy]

Hi Andy Yes it is worth brewing but it is malic that you need. Malic acid undergoes malolactic fermentation where by a bacteria turns the malic into lactic acid and other by products which add to the flavour profile. If you leave it to mature for 3-6 months in bulk it will start growing a white film (crust) which if it was anything else you would chuck. Just keep an eye on it and taste it to see if it is ok. You should notice that you will get quite a good farmyard twang to it like a west country cider. When you are ready to bottle bottle as normal and you will have some great cider. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[Andyhull]

Thanks Graham,

I'm going to LHBS on Friday to get an Admirals Reserve kit so i'll pick some malic acid up too.

Andy

 

[calumscott]

Hey Andy,

I've just bottled a TC made (almost) to GA's exacting standards and in truth I could have just sat for the whole afternoon supping pint after pint straight from the FV! What it's going to be like once it's fizzy and cold is almost too much to contemplate!

When you consider just how easy it is to make (i.e. ludicrously easy) it is stupidly good.

I believe that the tannin and malic acid are crucial - they don't really seem to play a part at first but during the ageing process really come to the fore. When I tasted it at the end of fermentation (after about a week or so) it was definitely cider but more like a strongbow/magners/supermarket brand, drinkable but with very little refinement.

After 3 months conditioning in bulk it is a totally different beast - it is in the same league as any artisan ciders I've tried.

So why do I say "almost" to GAs standards? I followed his recipe: juice, tannin, malic acid and pectolase. I used Youngs packet cider yeast where perhaps culturing a bottle of Old Rosie or something like GA does might have given an even better result and also I brewed it at the wrong time of year. Ideally I would have liked to get this going around October so it could condition in the cold over the winter for longer. Ah, there's the joy of brewing - doing it again the second year and trying to make it even better. :thumb:

Don't give up on TC, just get another one on, to gray's recipe, later in the year and condition it over winter before bottling in late spring.

 

[graysalchemy]

Mine still needs bottling from last september but I have got a yeast starter on the go ready for the next batch. As I hinted in the summer months you may need to keep an eye on it with regards to infection but TC from just apple juice usually gives you a 5 -6% cider which should be strong enough to age.

 

[calumscott]

I might have two ciders on the go over the winter - I can't not make a TC as one simply has to have a decent stock for the BBQ season and if it's worked before then it'll work again...

...but my sister-in-law has a super-productive bramley tree in her garden and virually no use for all the apples except for the odd pie. My LHBS rents out apple presses. You see where this is going...!

Well, it would be rude not to I think. Is the process the same? Bramleys are a cooker but I still think they are short on tannin, although really tart they still don't have any astringency to them? So same recipe? 1tsp per gallon of tannin, malic and pectolase?

 

[Cononthebarber]

I think Callum that if you don't make use of those apples you should be kicked out of the man club! Wish I had a sister with an apple tree.

I have two batches of TC so far, one maturing and one fermenting both with help from Gray. He seems like a good shout for a recipe using apples! Good luck!

 

[mattyboy]

Hi guys do you add the malic acid and tannin and pectolase at the start plus I see you add 1ts per gallon is that true for all three ingredients. Iv done 4 one gallon batches and must say its very very nice but I'd love to improve on what iv done
Thanks guys
Matty

 

[graysalchemy]

Yes it is 1 tsp per gallon at the start of fermentation but you could add the malic and tannin latter if you forgot.

Callum - I was thinking about that same question the other day :hmm: I would be inclined to add some tannin and malic before fermentation but how much I don't know, however as I have said above you could adjust it post fermentation if there wasn't enough and you could always blend it with a tc if there was too much.

 

[Andyhull]

What juice do you use?
I used Princes!

 

[mattyboy]

I use tesco's or sainsburys basics AJ it's cheep :)

 

[calumscott]

Juice: mine was from Lidl.
Apples: I wonder if there is any analysis of apple types and their chemical composition online... or available to the food industy perhaps... :hmm:

 

[Andyhull]

Do any of you boil it first?
I was told that boiling will remove the prservatives from it making it ferment better!

I buy Princes because we have a Farmfoods just round the corner from us and they sell it 2 for £1.

 

[graysalchemy]

No you don't need to boil as long as you are using 100% from concentrate. I use the asda smart price as it is 56p :thumb: :thumb:

 

[ScottM]

I quite fancy giving a long haul TC a go now, to see the difference.

Am I right in thinking that I just do the primary as normal, rack into a secondary with an airlock and just leave it there for 3-6 months before racking into a bottling bucket, priming and bottling?

I have an old FV up the loft that I won't be using for anything so it would be ideal for leaving a long term cider sitting in the loft.

 

[calumscott]

Exactly that Scott.

Best to get it on in the Autumn though so it can mature through the winter without getting too hot.

 

[graysalchemy]

Thats about it. But my only concern is leaving it for 3-6 months with summer temps especially in a loft with out regularly checking it.

It will look like this if it undergoes malolactic fermentation

Thanks TAZUK

But if it looks like this

or this

Then this is a problem

I am going to get one on soon but I will be able to keep a keen eye on it and to be frank I can probably keep it below 14c where I brew.