Very slow lager what should be next move?

[ericmark]

My lager started 1st Feb 2014 sat for a week at 10ºC with very little reaction s.g. 1.050 so it was warmed up. At around 18ºC it started to react it was then cooled again and by 18th Feb 2014 the s.g. had dropped to 1.020 and it was transferred into 6 demijohns and left at between 10ºC and 12ºC garage temperature quite stable. Shinning a light behind the demijohn a fine stream of bubbles has been coming from the bottom of the demijohns so assumed it was continuing to ferment but air lock activity was very slow.

It is clear amber liquid so 15th March, today, I thought must be getting near time to bottle. Moved two demijohns inside, as read on forum, should slowly allow warming again before bottling, and anyway too cold for me in the garage. The movement caused the activity to increase, but then the acid test hydrometer reading. Sitting at 1.012 to my mind not yet ready, but at this rate would be looking at another 6 weeks unless the weather warms up. By end of April likely it will have warmed up so garage will be above the 14 degrees given by John Palmer as upper limit. So question is do I return to garage and forget about it for 6 weeks, or should I give up and let it warm up in house as will not be true lager anyway, as garage will be too warm by the end, and instead try again next year?

The concentrate was from a kit, “Geordie Lager” but yeast was Young’s Lager yeast. The idea was make one using the kit recommended temperature of 18ºC and another using between 7ºC and 14ºC with lager yeast and compare the results. However the one made at 18ºC was completed on 1st Feb 2014 and the bottles have been sitting in the shed conditioning since then.

Clearly in hind sight I did them in the wrong order, also, reading on the forum, conditioning and lagering are two words for nearly the same process so my experiment is rather flawed. Shed likely colder than garage this time of year, so really all beer stored in the shed will have lagering/conditioning to some extent.

Any thoughts please.

 

[andyd]

I'm guessing that you didn't make a starter with the lager yeast, just added it at 10C. At this temperature it would take the yeast a long time to multiply to the levels you need to ferment out, which would explain why things were so slow. A better approach might have been to kick off at 18C and then reduce to 10C once initial signs of fermentation are visible, say after 24 hours.

Having said that, 1012 doesn't seem that high for a FG and it might well not go any lower, what did your other lager finish at?

Since you have six demijohns, why not bottle three and leave three in your garage for a few more weeks to see if there is any difference?

 

[ericmark]

I have looked at the details of the other lager and dropped to 1.006 so I must assume not ready to bottle. Taken them back into garage will leave them a little longer.

 

[Jimmy321]

It could be at final gravity at 1012, it depends on many things. My last 3 lagers started and finished at 1048-1010, 1053-1011,1059-1012. That was using proper pitching rates.

 

[ericmark]

Thank you both just popped into garage and afternoon sun on door lifted temperature to 16 degs C and all demijohns are now streaming with bubbles although very small so air lock not really very active. Think it's a case of waiting longer at least to end of March.

 

[rpt]

I use Saflager S23 lager yeast. Pitch at 20C after rehydrating. Leave for 24 hours before lowering to 12C. The alternative is to pitch more yeast. I think your problem is you under pitched.

 

[ericmark]

Thanks.

Personally my big mistake was order of brews and time of year. The lager using kit yeast should have been done second, and I should have started in November not February.

Having never done lager before I had no idea as to how long it would take.

What is really the acid test is not so much which of too tastes best but does the fast method one using the kit yeast taste OK. If it does then making lager using lager process is just not worth the effort.

I do home brew to get a supply of reasonable tasting cheap beer with minimum effort. The kit works well for me just pour in the contents of can and bag of sugar add yeast and stand back. However every so often I try some thing different.

With standard beer there are three signs that it's ready to bottle. 1) Air lock stops bubbling. 2) Beer becomes clear. 3) Hydrometer reading drops. Exception in past was Ginger beer which never cleared. The lager was so clear I was sure it was complete. It is first time I have carried a demijohn without disturbing the sediment. I was really surprised with hydrometer reading. To fill the test jar for hydrometer I use a anti-freeze hydrometer which has a bung to draw in the liquid. The anti-freeze hydrometer always sinks completely when beer is ready to bottle so before filling the test jar I have a good idea if ready. It sank so had to completely fill jar before I knew it was not ready. This could have been temperature I have noted different hydrometers act differently to temperature change. I would guess with glass only have to subtract 0.0006 which in real terms one can forget but with plastic temperature effects it much more and I have never found a correction chart for my plastic hydrometer.

My idea was to modify the anti-freeze hydrometer to use with beer, but found the problem is bubbles. With a test jar you can spin the hydrometer, and so remove bubbles adhering to it. Inside the pipette however you can't access the hydrometer to spin it so bubbles give false reading. Pity as would have been so much easier.

 

[ericmark]

My error it seems now was in the use of my hydrometer. I took a beer out of my shed and tested 1.010 I allowed the sample to warm up and remeasured 1.005 clearly not due to solely temperature change more to do with gas being released from the sample. Warmer the sample less gas it can retain.

If the lager acts in same way then that explains why the s.g. remained the same over a week one sample (the first) was allowed to warm up before reading was taken the second sample a week later was tested in the garage in the cold.

There is only one way to confirm this and that's to bring one demijohn inside and allow it to warm up with hydrometer reading both cold and warm and compare. This is being done as I write and I will report on the findings.

 

[ericmark]

Not what I wanted. One demijohn brought inside and yes there was a little error in reading when warmed up reading did fall however not by much and it was realised as the beer went cloudy main problem is it's no where near finished with fermenting. Started 1st February still going 26th March this was not what I expected.

Clearly weather will warm up and once that happens beer will ferment faster but this has really put me off Lager I know it means to store but did not really want to store it quite this long would like at some point to be able to drink it!

 

[winelight]

Lager is a pain, yes. I have only done one so far with real lager yeast and it took a while, but not too long. Don't remember exactly, sorry. I was fermenting at 12C in a fermentation fridge. Got the yeast off to a good start by making up the wort in the usual way, so it was around 21C, and then cooled over the next day or two.

As you say, warmer temperatures should speed it up a bit hopefully.

Then once fermented, people say to keep at 1C or thereabouts for another 4 weeks. I have another lager kit and lager yeast, but understandably haven't wanted to start it yet...

 

[jkp]

It seems that there are a few things that you could improve, as other members have suggested, particularly regarding the temp at the beginning of the ferment. So I'd say you shouldn't give up on lager just yet, give it another go and impliment some improvements.

I did my first lager a few months back, it finished fermenting after 3-4 weeks at 12 degrees and then I put it in the cold for another 4 weeks. So it does take a good few weeks but nothing compared to some things (I want to do a TC with MLF but that'll take ~6 months or maybe more!). It seemed to work ok, the other half says it is the best beers I've done so far (although I haven't done many!).

 

[ericmark]

Thanks for your support. I do have loads of beer in stock and as such no real reason to be in a hurry. However at rate it's going temperature will have risen before it's finished so idea of comparing real lager with lager tasting beer is some what flawed. Especially since lager tasting beer has been conditioning at around 6 degrees C all the time the proper lager has been brewing.

I am about to start the third beer after lager was started which as things are going will be bottled before the lager. This lager is going to have to be one hell of a brew to warrant all the effort. Having said that it echoes what I said about prohibition wine and yes it was well worth all the effort.

I really do think Young's lager yeast was not really a lager yeast but it was only one held in stock at local brew centre. Until this lager is complete there are no vessels to brew another and way it's going by that time it will be too warm so looking at October before I can try again.