Water Chemistry

[Hesmondgrolsh]

Hi I'm new to the Forum and would like to say Hi to all.

Just got hold of a load of kit from a lovely guy who has decided to concentrate on wine.
I want to make a fine pilsner style lager and I live in East Anglia where the water could not be less suited to this style of beer

Hardness mg CaCO3: 293 ppm/l
Sulphate SO4-2: 26 ppm/l
Sodium Na: 10.6 ppm/l
Chloride Cl: 23 ppm/l
Alkalinity HCO3: 309ppm
Hydrogen Ion (PH Value) 7.1 but reading from the tap 7.81

So I bought some AMS to use at 8ml / 23l of water to reduce the hardness by 64ppm and worked out that I should use about 50ml for about 32/33l of water for 4.6kg of grist

However this raises the Chloride by 7.8 ppm and the sulphate by 10.8ppm/l

How do i get a full balanced water profile

* Target minerals for a pilsner lager

I couldn't find a value for Magnesium on the affinity water website for my region - so 2 is a made up number

I have no chemistry whatsoever- so I kind of need laymen speak if poss?

Hope there are some budding brewing chemists out there that cab help

 

[Twostage]

Short answer is you can't if you want that profile. Have a look at Spotless water, see if there is a refill station near you. Spotless is a blank slate (no minerals) so you can just add salts to get the profile you need. Only about 5p per litre. You do need some containers to put it in though.

 

[Hesmondgrolsh]

Thankyou 2stage, "salt and mineral prefix" i can see a brand new line of brewing products here!

And if i stick with my water with an AMS dose, a campden tablet and maybe a little gypsum will it disgusting to the purist or am i being obsessive again?

 

[peebee]

You should be fine with your plan to use AMS. The combined sulphate after you use AMS is still only 37ppm, which remains in the "naff all" bracket. And as you point out ... "maybe a little gypsum" which I understand the Pilsner breweries add to their water 'cos it's so devoid of useful elements (you probably need no gypsum 'cos your water already has a scrap of calcium and sulphate).

Magnesium: It's common to have no Magnesium value because the labs concentrate on getting an old-fashioned "Hardness" figure out. "Hardness" covers both Calcium and Magnesium, and display it measured "as CaCO3". You'd think "CaCO3" stands for "Calcium Carbonate" ... and you won't be alone thinking that. But it's bol*****. You get used to the fairy tales after a while.


More irreverent comments in my signature links vvvvv. I fink it uses "layman speak"?

[EDIT: Sorry, getting mixed up with who I'm quoting! It's alright now ... ?]

 

[MashBag]

Just get some DWP and you will be good to go. Is Anglia water your supplier?

Edit: DWB is the brewing product the other one is my father

 

[peebee]

Just get some DWP ...

DWB! What've you got on your mind?

Anyway, I think DWB is mainly gypsum? And that's been covered above (looking for "Pils"-like water treatment).

 

[Hesmondgrolsh]

first heard of DWB about 3 hours ago and need to do some reading, this is a rabbit hole, but I love this **** . Knowledge is power and all that

so as a newbee to the site, I'll spend some time digging around the threads but what sounds interesting is a blank water profile and building what you want for the so called perfect brew..

Very impressed with the comments, please keep them coming...

 

[Buffers brewery]

This and other “discussions” on the forum on the subject of water chemistry has lead me to the opinion that it is anything BUT water chemistry. More like water art. Chemistry to me is something that is precise and predictable. Follow the formula and the answer is always, ALWAYS the same! Water art will give you different answers depending what “calculator” you use and you’re guaranteed will be different from other “calculators”. As for @peebee defuddler, well no offence but I’m totally befuddled! More a reflection of my ability to understand this “subject” than the defuddler. Rant over. Sorry about that

 

[peebee]

... As for @peebee defuddler, well no offence but I’m totally befuddled! More a reflection of my ability to understand this “subject” than the defuddler ...

But have you followed the advice it was giving? Fill those six boxes in at the top and job done. There is nothing more the spreadsheet can do for you. If you are unfortunate, you must dip into the "Foetid Mire" to fill in all six boxes. But if you just do the bare minimum, you should be able to get the answer you are after without getting side-tracked.

But if you try to understand the "Mire", if you doubt its output, if you need to believe "CaCO3" must mean "chalk" or "limestone" when talking about water (which unfortunately is what logic will have you believe), then you are lost and will bathe in the Foetid Mire for longer than I'd dare imagine. But please remember, it wasn't me who did the "befuddling", it is the home-brewing heroes you've been believing previously. Believing, but not understanding, it's not their intention for you to "understand".

Very important: The "Defuddler" isn't a "calculator"! It only "conditions" the information you have so that you can plug it into a "calculator" without it leading you off to places that your Mother will have warned you not to go near.

Keep trying and it'll fall into place eventually. What I would suggest is for now you should try to forget all you've learnt about some middle-ages mythical non-science concerning "water-hardness". That subject should have died out with wizards, griffins and magic potions. Learn more about it when your understanding is mended and the likes of "water hardness" can't infect your intelligence anymore.

 

[MashBag]

DWB! What've you got on your mind?

Anyway, I think DWB is mainly gypsum? And that's been covered above (looking for "Pils"-like water treatment).

Sorry about the typo. It is one I don't see (fathers initials )

Better than gypsum.

 

[MashBag]

This and other “discussions” on the forum on the subject of water chemistry has lead me to the opinion that it is anything BUT water chemistry. More like water art.

I like that. Certainly was for me too.
I had to upgrade my view of it to been able to logically cope. Water art covers it pretty well.

After you have moved on, you can ask "how do I get n water and avoid the monumental ammount of online sh1te".

The answer for me was to pick an informative source & stick with it (only). If it fails repeat. Until you have a process and a product supply that works.

And "water chemistry" will fill your cupboard with stuff you only needs sparrows handfull of.

@peebee nothing aimed at you. We aim for the same goal but navigate to it in a very different way.

 

[peebee]

@peebee nothing aimed at you. ...

One of the things I've found being pushed into more of a teaching role than a student one is the old adage; it's easier to teach beginners that don't come with their own ideas cluttered with all the cobblers that came with it. (Or perhaps the saying "you can't teach old dogs new tricks").

It was easy for me to shake off the cobblers: I got a "reboot"! (Erm ... I don't recommend a "reboot", more often it ends with brown bread).