interesting sparge blog, I fall into first camp because I never felt the need to
Water Chemistry adjustment
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Sadfield
Landlord.
Oops, sorry. Thinking about bitter easily leads my mind to Harvey's Sussex Best.
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peebee
Out of Control
I think @Galena has posted an article explaining the reasoning? Don't know 'cos I haven't read that article yet. But there is concern that sparging water above pH6.0 can leach undesirable substances (like tannins) from the spent grain being sparged. So, to ensure that doesn't happen, the "alkalinity" of the sparge water is reduced. pH4.5 will see the "Alkalinity" removed (pH4.3 to be unnecessarily precise) but pH5.5 is generally considered to be enough (i.e. about the same as the mash being sparged).
So do I! Or at least I find using well mineralised mash waters negates any need to acidify the mash water. But if I was to fit a large red button to your table that holds back the chatter of dozens of incensed forum users who don't want to use well mineralised mash water (for reasons I don't understand either) ... would you press the button?
I think that's a "rhetorical question"? i.e. ... Do not answer it!
Galena
Landlord.
After reading that linked article I have decided to try some Lactic Acid in the sparge of my next brew, it only takes 1ml (for me) to take it down to 5.5 including minerals. I'm not convinced it is at all necessary but if it's good enough for Brad Smith..........
Sadfield
Landlord.
Specifically lowering the pH of sparge water always strikes me as a homebrew thing. I think all the breweries I've been to, have two things, water and brew liquor. The difference being one is for cleaning and one is treated and heated for brewing, be it mash or sparge. I don't ever recall taking sparge water from a different tank than that for mashing. That's how I do it, treat my water to make liquor for mashing and sparging.
Galena
Landlord.
So you treat your total water with salts and acid if necessary all in one tank? What if you don't have the capacity for that though?
Sadfield
Landlord.
Not something that I've had to think about. I guess that may be why I only see homebrewers having two seperate treatments, an opportunity presented by lack of capacity.
peebee
Out of Control
I'm sure that would be the case in commercial premises ("all in one tank"), but many homebrewers have the option to treat "mash" and "sparge" water differently ... so, they do! Makes sense not to use untreated high alkalinity tap water for sparging, or to add acid to water that's had "alkalinity" salts added to it (i.e. don't add the "alkalinity" salts in the first place!). Doesn't really make any difference to our "soft" low "TDS" tap water (and therefore low-buffered, or low alkalinity), but I still do it (adding less than 1ml acid to 60L sparge water). So, I'm daft, but I already know that.
Galena
Landlord.
I don't doubt it, I was questioning whether Sadfield had the capacity to do, and indeed does do that.
peebee
Out of Control
Hey! It's quite jolly that AMS (CRS) stuff:
The acid strength was taken from the "Fact Sheet", the amount needed calculated from the fact sheet and transferred to Bru'n Water (which does support AMS but still calls it CRS and would have calculated the amount needed too). (24.15ml in guesstimated 34.5L mash water). It greatly reduces the amount of CaCl2 needed to top up the Chloride so the Calcium drops to 70ppm (well, some folk only want 50ppm, I daren't ask why).
Note the negative amounts. I did say the bicarbonate if one of these "pretend" ("equivalence") substances like "CaCO3", didn't I. But you can "pretend" the bicarbonate actually exists as bicarbonate, and for the most part actually does.
[EDIT: I've used the very convenient 33% solution of CaCl2 used for cheesemaking. There are conversions earlier in the thread to get amount of anhydrous and dihydrate solid.]
The acid strength was taken from the "Fact Sheet", the amount needed calculated from the fact sheet and transferred to Bru'n Water (which does support AMS but still calls it CRS and would have calculated the amount needed too). (24.15ml in guesstimated 34.5L mash water). It greatly reduces the amount of CaCl2 needed to top up the Chloride so the Calcium drops to 70ppm (well, some folk only want 50ppm, I daren't ask why).
Note the negative amounts. I did say the bicarbonate if one of these "pretend" ("equivalence") substances like "CaCO3", didn't I. But you can "pretend" the bicarbonate actually exists as bicarbonate, and for the most part actually does.
[EDIT: I've used the very convenient 33% solution of CaCl2 used for cheesemaking. There are conversions earlier in the thread to get amount of anhydrous and dihydrate solid.]
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I first heat the required amount of mash water,previously treated with Campden tab,then I add salts and crs. While the mash is underway I do the same with the sparge water.
Galena
Landlord.
I now measure out my mash and sparge water the night before and add the campden and salts. I find Calcium Chloride does not dissolve too easily so give it the extra time in cold water, perhaps if I could find a source in powder form instead of 'chunks' would help
peebee
Out of Control
I can do better than that! I've been mentioning it earlier in the thread, and even included a "conversion factor" earlier in the thread, although some calculators can handle it as-is:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Calcium-Chloride-Solution-Cheese-Making/dp/B08N6PW33L
33% solution, SG 1.330. Unlike solid stuff, it is what it says: Little problem with hygroscopic tendencies, it's already liquid (in a screw top bottle)!
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Absolutely. Being a commercial process does not make it "best practise" far from it. It just makes it commercial.. for commercial reasons.. which I doubt are anything like that of a homebrewer.
Galena
Landlord.
Well that is very true, but in this case I cannot see the difference. If you are going to treat both mash and sparge water then I see no disadvantage in treating all in one tank?
Galena
Landlord.
How would this be dosed compared with the granules? So if a brewing calculator suggests adding 3g say?
Sadfield
Landlord.
Being homebrew doesn't make it best practice either.
Two smaller volumes of liquid will heat faster than one large one, or require a lower wattage element. That to me sems like it would be of commercial value.
As for best practice, I've never seen it suggested in any homebrewing books. Most suggest stopping sparging at 6.0pH. I suspect acidification was presented on a forum as a solution for astringency. Astringency from over-sparging, that isn't best practice.
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peebee
Out of Control
You don't weight it, you measure it (in a measuring cylinder or the like). Many water calculators do it for you (if it knows the concentration or SG - that's why I repeated that info above). That screenshot of Bru'n Water is telling you, but a bit of sloppy programming means it still says "grams") ... i.e. it says 5.52 ... millilitres.
I was also sloppy and didn't provide how the concentration is read; w/w or w/v ... I think it's correctly described w/v (weight/volume)? Anyhow, 3g CaCl2 is 9ml of 33% solution (okay, not precisely, needs 33.33333...etc.% solution for starters, but that would be getting enormously silly to work it "precisely"; we're not laboratory analysis chemists, though I do wonder at times, even at my own antics!).
Note, it is CaCl2, no (almost) anhydrous, no (approximately) dihydrate, it is!
Galena
Landlord.
Thanks, I checked Brewfather and it can be selected in the settings for liquid at 33%
peebee
Out of Control
It's a good job they use "%". If they had used "SG" you'd need special hydrometers to read in the 1.300 range ... or else enter my world of "pyknometers" ...
(Oh no, he's mentioned that word again! ... Save us! ... run! ... )
