Why does this have to be so confusing!?

[Monkhouse]

Definitely would lean more towards the chloride. I’ll get some litmus papers

 

[Mash Monster]

Definitely would lean more towards the chloride. I’ll get some litmus papers

Just be careful where you get the test strips from I bought some from a HBS on line and they were old stock and didn’t change colour at all !!!!!

 

[foxy]

Definitely would lean more towards the chloride. I’ll get some litmus papers

You are brewing a dry stout and now want to add more chloride? I think the total amount of crystal in that recipe is the cause of no head or lacing. Crystal malts have a negative foam impact. 22% is just to much, all porridge oats will do impair it even further.
If you have entered your grain bill and your forecast mash pH is at the lower end then just go ahead and brew it but add some carapils to counter the crystal (200g). pH is forgiving at the lower end but not the higher.

 

[Monkhouse]

You are brewing a dry stout and now want to add more chloride? I think the total amount of crystal in that recipe is the cause of no head or lacing. Crystal malts have a negative foam impact. 22% is just to much, all porridge oats will do impair it even further.
If you have entered your grain bill and your forecast mash pH is at the lower end then just go ahead and brew it but add some carapils to counter the crystal (200g). pH is forgiving at the lower end but not the higher.

I thought carapils was a crystal malt??

 

[foxy]

I thought carapils was a crystal malt??

carapils is a dextrin malt.

 

[Mash Monster]

carapils is a dextrin malt.

I think it depends on what side of the pond you live

 

[Sadfield]

Either way, a few 100g of dextrin malt is a drop in that pond, when the wort is full of malted barley and roasted barley.

http://youngscientistssymposium.org/YSS2016/pdf/Kultgen.pdf

 

[foxy]

Either way, a few 100g of dextrin malt is a drop in that pond, when the wort is full of malted barley and roasted barley.

View attachment 74099

http://youngscientistssymposium.org/YSS2016/pdf/Kultgen.pdf

The recipe already has a lot of foam positive ingredients including 1,044g cara malt plus 448g of roasted grains but fails to get a head on the beer, may be useful to add more carapils to boost the foaming power.

 

[Sadfield]

The recipe already has a lot of foam positive ingredients including 1,044g cara malt plus 448g of roasted grains but fails to get a head on the beer, may be useful to add more carapils to boost the foaming power.

You almost got there foxy.

Exactly, the grist for any Stout inheritantly contains very foam positive ingredients, pale malt and Roasted Barley. Swapping them for less foam positive Carapils, will reduce foam positivity. Increasing the grist or replacing foam negative grains with Carapils would also be less effective than simply doing it with base malt.

 

[foxy]

You almost got there foxy.

Exactly, the grist for any Stout inheritantly contains very foam positive ingredients, pale malt and Roasted Barley. Swapping them for less foam positive Carapils, will reduce foam positivity. Increasing the grist or replacing foam negative grains with Carapils would also be less effective than simply doing it with base malt.

Nobody is swapping them, as Mash Monster pointed out you call things differently over there. I thought he had to much crystal, appears that the 1,044 grams of cara malt which is foam positive and adding carapils also foam positive along with the roasted malt would eliminate the crystal foam negative obviously something is wrong. Base malt is neutral this is my Baltic Porter very similar recipe except mine had lager yeast and was fermented at low temperature.

 

[Sadfield]

Base malt isn't neutral, it clearly shows on the chart above that Harrington Barley, Two Row, Vienna and Munich, are more foam positive than Carapils.

Adding carapils on top would also increase the alcohol content, alcohol is foam negative. Therefore it would be better to increase the abv with something more foam positive than Carapils. Any 2-row base malt for example.

Is caramalt foam positive? Many low lovibond crystals appear not to be, or less than 2 row.

 

[foxy]

Base malt isn't neutral, it clearly shows on the chart above that Harrington Barley, Two Row, Vienna and Munich, are more foam positive than Carapils.

Adding carapils on top would also increase the alcohol content, alcohol is foam negative. Therefore it would be better to increase the abv with something more foam positive than Carapils. Any 2-row base malt for example.

Is caramalt foam positive? Many low lovibond crystals appear not to be, or less than 2 row.

View attachment 74104

No good quoting foam in wort, it is in the finished product that it counts, 1,044kg Crisp caramalt in the recipe if you could trouble yourself to check it out.
https://crispmalt.com/malts/cara-malt/Instead of trying to find arguments try and help the OP.

 

[Sadfield]

Instead of trying to find arguments try and help the OP.

That's funny.

By complicating the grist? Adding an extra variable? We'll have to disagree on what's helpful.

I've checked the recipe, thanks. And the research that suggests the maltster's claims aren't reliable. That's why I've suggested brewing a simple stout with a base malt and roasted malt grist. This will eliminate as many variables to find the source of the problem. They're perfectly free to add more ingredients, mash and steep grains separately and use the most complicated software to solve this issue, though. It's probably just "user error".

 

[Monkhouse]

Nobody is swapping them, as Mash Monster pointed out you call things differently over there. I thought he had to much crystal, appears that the 1,044 grams of cara malt which is foam positive and adding carapils also foam positive along with the roasted malt would eliminate the crystal foam negative obviously something is wrong. Base malt is neutral this is my Baltic Porter very similar recipe except mine had lager yeast and was fermented at low temperature.

View attachment 74102

Is this from a keg or a bottle?

 

[foxy]

Is this from a keg or a bottle?

Bottle, I generally only bottle, cask and sometimes keg. I prefer bottle and cask as opposed to keg.

 

[Monkhouse]

I’m the same I only bottle

 

[Monkhouse]

On a completely separate brew, can anyone recommend what target water on brewers friend I should select for a hefe weiss? (Erdinger clone)

 

[Mash Monster]

Something that I’ve never brewed but a quick look at Erdinger clones on Brewfather Library throws this one up