Homebrew expectations vs. commercial beer

[foxy]

I wouldn’t necessarily say “zilch”, but I only very occasionally buy beer and never buy mass produced stuff anymore (unless I’m in a pub). I still buy beers for “research” purposes, still pop to my local microbrewery every now and again (they have a built in bottle shop with beers from other breweries too) and when I’m in M&S I’ll pick up some Westmalle and their “Proper” German lagers.

I love English beers, today I was fishing, I usually take a couple of stubby's to have after I wrap up, not far from where I fish there is a bottle o with a good supply of UK beers I would sooner wait the 30 minutes drive home to have a beer even though it has gone past 3 pm.

 

[sbarrance]

It's a constant learning curve for sure !

My first AG brew was a TT Landlord clone,I made many mistakes but it was easily the best beer I had made after all my kits/extracts and partial extract .
I tend to mainly make hoppy IPA styles ,but Stout was decent and bitters all solid .....
My disasters usually temperature related ,or me not concentrating !
An addition of a temp controlled fridge is now in place as we speak so hoping for better consistency....

So in conclusion ,yes I think every brew I have high hopes that maybe can't be matched but I'm drinking fresh beer from good Ingredients at 50p a pint ....we just need to relax and enjoy it

 

[Cwrw666]

How can you possibly evaluate beer other than whether you like it or not?

Try this - last night we had a couple of friends round for a BBQ, socially distanced of course. I appear to have consumed 7 pints of mine and his homebrew, all about 5.5 to 6% ABV, and very nice it all was too. But this morning, barely a trace of feeling a bit rough. If I'd have had that much of any beer from either a supermarket or pub I'd be so hungover now with a pounding head etc. So don't tell me commercial beer is better than homebrew.

Next thing is you'll be telling me Mr Kipling makes exceedingly good cakes and home cooking is sh**e.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Next thing is you'll be telling me Mr Kipling makes exceedingly good cakes and home cooking is sh**e.

When you put it like this, it is an odd debate really.... I mean, is there anyone here who doesn't think they could knock up a significantly better lasagne than Findus?

 

[Clint]

I like the sense of achievement in making "good" beer as against beer you need to tip down the drain...which I've not done in around four years except for a Cali common that was gushers.
You definitely can make beer that's on par with commercial stuff and better in some cases but due to our kit,practices and hobby level of involvement,plus it's not the end of the world...stuff can be inconsistent and go a bit wrong.
I like my beers! Do you like yours?
Do you give many away? What's the feed back like based on not just how cheap it is? I think psychologically home brewers are on a loser giving their beer to most who don't also brew as people already have a pre conceived opinion on what homebrew is... rocket fuel and tastes a bit funny... doesn't taste like Boddingtons,John Smith's or Fosters...because that's what they like...fair enough...if you like it drink it but brewing my own has opened up my eyes to beer in general and to try to appreciate what's going on in terms of malt,yeast and beer style. Sours...who'd have thought a sour beer could be so good? Same with Saison...that dry,tart taste? Then adding different malts to your beers... currently my new favourite is Munich. But then I don't like maize in a beer...

 

[MickDundee]

Next thing is you'll be telling me Mr Kipling makes exceedingly good cakes and home cooking is sh**e.

When you put it like this, it is an odd debate really.... I mean, is there anyone here who doesn't think they could knock up a significantly better lasagne than Findus?

It depends whether you hold Mr Kipling and Findus up as the benchmark for your baking/cooking.

It’s easy to make beer better than macro-brewed stuff purely because they are cost driven and we go for the ingredients. That’s the equivalent of home baking v Mr Kipling.

However, being able to make a beer better than hundreds of years of Abbey traditions or innovative, science drive micro breweries is the equivalent of being able to cook as well as your local Michelin starred restaurant.

 

[Clint]

Evaluation Vs liking...I think these are very different as evaluation is judging to a standard and liking is personal preference. I think we do both but our evaluation is to our personal standard.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Evaluation Vs liking...I think these are very different as evaluation is judging to a standard and liking is personal preference. I think we do both but our evaluation is to our personal standard.

This is part of the reason why I will eventually get round to firing one of my beers to someone from here who knows their stuff. I will freely admit that sort of evaluation is beyond me.

 

[Clint]

If you do take any feedback constructively,as you may not be able to achieve "perfection" yet,ever or without spending money you don't want to. As long as you're happy that's what counts.

 

[samale]

This is part of the reason why I will eventually get round to firing one of my beers to someone from here who knows their stuff. I will freely admit that sort of evaluation is beyond me.

To me that is the key point. Letting other people judge your beer.

 

[Clint]

Agree...but like I said there's two kinds of judge...

 

[samale]

Agree...but like I said there's two kinds of judge...

I have a friend who I let try my beer and to be honest he would drink ****. So his reviews don't count. I like swapping beer on the forum, it's a good way to gauge your own beer against others. The Christmas swap and monthly competition's is another great way for feedback

 

[An Ankoù]

Brewing 11 years here

• Still learning
• Progress is not even, flatline for a bit, sometimes even go backwards, but then occasionaly make a step up
• Still have the odd failure: in fact, last brew #181 ended up with a phenol/TCP taste, probably due to the heatwave
• But I often think my beers are better than those in the pub
• Probably 10% rubbish, 30% great, 60% good
• Still struggling with lagers though and have resorted to buying those this summer (Budvar and Estrella) as, frankly, they are way better than I can currently brew

Lagers are a real bitch to get right and copying a particular lager is even harder. Best go for an approximation. It can be very difficult, too, to get one that pours clear after it's been chilled. Some smaller commercial brewers call this "unfiltered" lager, but I know perfectly well it's chill haze. Long storage of up to a year can mitigate this.
Commercial brewers tend to brew a very limited number of beers repeatedly, aiming for consistency. We tend to brew all sorts of stuff, some works and some doesn't. I'm sure the commercial brewers have had a few failures, too, before hitting on their product range.

 

[Cwrw666]

However, being able to make a beer better than hundreds of years of Abbey traditions or innovative, science drive micro breweries is the equivalent of being able to cook as well as your local Michelin starred restaurant.

So when you say commercial beer you mean the best beer commercially produced that you can possibly imagine - and ignore the ninety odd percent of beer that varies between good and abysmal?
I think most people think of commercial beer as that which they can buy in their local pubs / shops.
As to microbrewery beer - I collect beer labels, preferring to drink the beer and peel the label off the bottle, so over the last few years I've worked my way through an awful lot of microbrewery beer. Some of it has been as good as my own, an awful lot very indifferent stuff, and some has been absolute rubbish and should have been poured down the drain at source. I've had beer with obvious wild yeast infections. Also beer that has been years past it's best before date and with a new one stuck over the old one - and that was direct from the brewery. Once had a bottle of vinegar!

 

[MickDundee]

So when you say commercial beer you mean the best beer commercially produced that you can possibly imagine - and ignore the ninety odd percent of beer that varies between good and abysmal?
I think most people think of commercial beer as that which they can buy in their local pubs / shops.

I don’t mean the best commercial beer produced you can imagine, I also don’t mean the likes of Carling, Fosters, Greene King etc. There’s a middle ground which can still be argued its difficult to better - When I refer to commercial beer I mean beer I like to drink (I.e. that I would buy if I went to the shop or pub)

If I’m buying beer, 90% of the time it’s from Tesco/M&S at less than £3 a bottle. There are some very good beers in this category that I can’t surpass. Westmalle falls into this category, Brooklyn Lager is another for example.

 

[strange-steve]

So when you say commercial beer you mean the best beer commercially produced that you can possibly imagine - and ignore the ninety odd percent of beer that varies between good and abysmal

I suppose there's ambiguity with the original question, which is the problem when this debate arises.

Can you make beer better than some commercial beers? Absolutely.

Can you make better beer than most commercial beers? Probably.

Can you make better beers than the best commercial beers? Probably not.

 

[Sadfield]

I suppose there's ambiguity with the original question, which is the problem when this debate arises.

Can you make beer better than some commercial beers? Absolutely.

Can you make better beer than most commercial beers? Probably.

Can you make better beers than the best commercial beers? Probably not.

Adds more ambiguity. Can I make a better beer than Carling? Yes, as I don't have to add DMS to my beers to meet consumer expectation. Can I make beer better than Carling? Absolutely not. I bet I don't even know 10% of what they know about brewing.

 

[kelper]

If I’m buying beer, 90% of the time it’s from Tesco/M&S at less than £3 a bottle. There are some very good beers in this category that I can’t surpass. Westmalle falls into this category, Brooklyn Lager is another for example.

Well, I won't do a bottle swop with you!

 

[obscure]

Over the course of lockdown I have bought beer from a lot of different breweries and one thing I have found is that almost without fail the best beers from them have being from their normal range, rather than the various random experimental or ’guest’ beers they do. Their is something to be said for a brewery which has complete nailed the malt, hops, water choice, yeast etc. and have brewed the same beer hundreds or thousands of times. Also I do not have the time or the inclination to brew enough to give myself the variety that want sometime I want a sour, or a good barley wine but don’t want 10L or more of it.

 

[strange-steve]

Adds more ambiguity. Can I make a better beer than Carling? Yes, as I don't have to add DMS to my beers to meet consumer expectation. Can I make beer better than Carling? Absolutely not. I bet I don't even know 10% of what they know about brewing.

Nobody is arguing that we are better brewers than the commercial brewers, nor was that the point of my post. Edit to add: The technical skill of the brewers of Carling or any other macro lager is unquestionable, but does that mean their beers are "better"? There may be an argument for yes, on a purely objective basis but that's not how we evaluate beer, as much as we may like to think so. Even BJCP score sheets have a section for "overall impression" which is for "overall drinking pleasure" and therefore very much a subjective opinion.