A crack at Flowers Original

[guyb]

I happened to be in Birmingham at the weekend, and in anticipation of the trip had a look to see if there were any brewing shops in the area (my local one shut a couple of years back, although the nearest is only about 12miles away in Sheffield).

Anyhow, I popped into the Hampstead Brewing Centre after finding it by the sat nav eventually.

I was looking for another kit, and I got talking to the bloke in the shop who was a little goldmine of information.

Basically, they do what is called a "design a brew", where you can mix pre-determined quantities of <edit> pre-hopped <edit> extract malt, grain, wheat and hops - I gather this is called "steeping", although am not sure if the process is called extract brewing? I say this as I am wanting to make that step up and away from just kit beers, so some of the terminology is new.

Anyway here's what I bought from Hampsteads (the bloke there helped me to put this together), the numbers correspond to the Hampstead convention of labelling the products (they also do a recipe book) - the website is a bit of a mare to be honest:

1x No.3 medium base colour 30 EBU bitterness 40 EBC (1.5kg)
1x No.4 medium dark base colour 50 EBU bitterness 40 EBC (1.5kg)
1x No.1 crushed torriefied wheat teabag (50g)
3x No.4 crushed crystal teabag - 145EBC (50g each)
1x Hop Pack - Styrian Goldings teabag (20g) AA 5.2%
1x Hop Pack - Challenger teabag (20g T90 hop pellets) AA 7%
1x Design a Brew yeast (I don't quite know which yeast type this was - it was 6g)

Method:

Steep the wheat and crystal for 20mins at 66deg C, with a volume of water 1 litre per teabag (so 4 litres for this brew).
Stand the malt in warm water.

Remove teabags from the pan, add the liquor and the malt to a FV, add the hop teabags to the FV (I believe this is dry hopping?), add up to the 23 litre mark with water, I left to cool to 23degC, then pitched the yeast.

OG was 1.040 at 23, which I believe corrects to 1.041 (according to some tools online).

It's going like the clappers 24hrs later, I did try it before I pitched the yeast, and it tasted amazing.

Perhaps that is the difference between doing a kit, and taking it to that next step.

It has given me more confidence that's for sure.

I am sure there are other brew shops that do this type of thing - it was dead easy doing it in simple steps.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

I think you've missed an important step here.

From what I gather you have done.

1. steeped the specialist grains in water @ 66C
2. combined the water you steeped the grains in with the Malt Extract and more water to make up to 23 Litres.
3. Added the hops to the FV.

I can't see any stage where you boiled any of the hops in any wort in order to extract the bitterness. You have also not boiled the water you steeped the grains in in order to sterilise it.

At the moment from what I see you have an FV full of sugary wort, with no bitterness from the hops, the hops that are steeping will give you hop flavour and aroma but no bitterness quanities.

Heres what you should be doing

1. Steep the grains in a pan for 45 mins at 66C
2. remove the grains.
3. Add the Malt Extract to the pan
4. bring the whole lot to the boil
5. Add the hops, in your case probably just the Challenger hops
6. Boil for 60 minutes
7. Cool the wort and add it to the FV, top up with cold water to the required volume.
8. When at correct temperature, add the yeast and the other hops.

Hope this helps

 

[guyb]

I think you've missed an important step here.

From what I gather you have done.

1. steeped the specialist grains in water @ 66C
2. combined the water you steeped the grains in with the Malt Extract and more water to make up to 23 Litres.
3. Added the hops to the FV.

I can't see any stage where you boiled any of the hops in any wort in order to extract the bitterness. You have also not boiled the water you steeped the grains in in order to sterilise it.

At the moment from what I see you have an FV full of sugary wort, with no bitterness from the hops, the hops that are steeping will give you hop flavour and aroma but no bitterness quanities.

Heres what you should be doing

1. Steep the grains in a pan for 45 mins at 66C
2. remove the grains.
3. Add the Malt Extract to the pan
4. bring the whole lot to the boil
5. Add the hops, in your case probably just the Challenger hops
6. Boil for 60 minutes
7. Cool the wort and add it to the FV, top up with cold water to the required volume.
8. When at correct temperature, add the yeast and the other hops.

Hope this helps

This is interesting, as the instructions didn't mention boiling to sterilise (but I can see your point very well).
I can also see your point of extracting the bitterness.

A couple of questions if I may?

I assume that I will get some evaporation when boiling for 60mins? Does this matter, and do I need to do anything about it (although I could just put the lid on the pot - it's a 7 litre stockpot).

And do you reckon my brew will turn out, but perhaps not be overly bitter (if that makes sense)?

Very much appreciate the pointers on this, I suppose you learn from your mistakes.

many thanks
Guy

 

[Runwell-Steve]

You can expect to get about 10% evaporation per hour, you should boil with the lid off.

You just need to put more water in to start with. I think you may find yourself needing a slightly bigger stock pot.

I have just re read your ingredients, and I may have got things a bit wrong. I was assuming you were using normal Malt Extract, but in fact what you are using is Malt Extract which has been pre hopped, so the bitterness is already in there.
I missed that when I first looked, probably as I have never come across it before. In which case what you did may well be correct, it is a hybrid of kit brewing and extract brewing, which I have never seen before.

Your beer may well turn out perfectly fine.

 

[guyb]

Thanks for taking the time to post, I have still learned things from your suggestions.

Yes, you are right, the Malt was pre-hopped, I only posted it on here (the brew ingredients and method) because I'd not come across the method before - the chap in the shop said he spent a year or so developing it with one of the shops in Leeds.

I wasn't sure what to call it either, hybrid is perhaps the best description.

[Panic over , time to stop :pray: ]

 

[graysalchemy]

Flowers ah I remeber it well, well not really got steamingly drunk on it on a field trip when I was a student, that and castle eden.

Well done for your first brew. Hope you manage to boil it.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

[Good Ed]

I've done a few of these guyb, you put the grain and the hop teabags into steep for 20 mins, then discard the grain teabags, put the hops teabags and the LME into the FV and make up to 23L. I've used water straight out of the tap, although I would now treat with 1/2 campden tablet, then pitch the yeast when the wort is below 24C. The Cornish Ale turned out well, and the Belgium Bimbo was very nice, I did another recipe that I made up which wasn't so good :?

Makes a very acceptable beer, and very quick any easy to do, better than a kit, but a bit more expensive too :thumb:

 

[evanvine]

I think these "design a brew" are getting quite popular.
MD was certainly impressed a while back.

 

[Aleman]

The design a Beer extracts are already hopped . . . the hop character packs are just to give flavour / aroma. . . . Damn fine 'kits' they are too

 

[guyb]

I've done a few of these guyb, you put the grain and the hop teabags into steep for 20 mins, then discard the grain teabags, put the hops teabags and the LME into the FV and make up to 23L. I've used water straight out of the tap, although I would now treat with 1/2 campden tablet, then pitch the yeast when the wort is below 24C. The Cornish Ale turned out well, and the Belgium Bimbo was very nice, I did another recipe that I made up which wasn't so good :?

Makes a very acceptable beer, and very quick any easy to do, better than a kit, but a bit more expensive too :thumb:

Out of interest, is that half a campden tablet per 23L? And when do you put it in? I guess at the same time as the water goes in the wort? And whilst I know what campden tablets are for I guess this is to dechlorinate your water?

Good to hear that the Belgium Bimbo and Cornish turned out well - I might have to try the Belgian for sure.

I am hoping the beer turns out to be better than a kit, and I'm only back into brewing for the 3rd month after 15years out of it so I don't mind paying a few quid extra for something that ultimately turns out as good as, or near to as something you get in the shops (which I've been shelling out for all these years anyway) :hmm: but not any more!! :party:

 

[Aleman]

I'd say the Design a Beer range can give All Grain a run for it's money

It's not quite as flexible, but the extract and hops are fresh and top quality, and done to Heart Of Englands Specs by a decent maltster . . . Well worth the extra money over premium kits

The actual dose for campden tablets is 1 tablet to 20 US Gallons (17UK ones) . . .1/2 a tablet in 5 gallons is not really overdosing as any remaining sulphite acts as a reductone preventing long term oxidation

 

[Good Ed]

Out of interest, is that half a campden tablet per 23L? And when do you put it in? I guess at the same time as the water goes in the wort? And whilst I know what campden tablets are for I guess this is to dechlorinate your water?

Thats right, it gets rid of any unwanted chlorine or chloramine, as Aleman says 1/2 tab in 23L is ok, just crush it up and disolve in your water before you add it to the FV.

I would recommend the Belgian Bimbo, it took about 4-5 weeks to condition and tasted a bit like Leffe :thumb:

 

[guyb]

Just a quick update, the brew fermented down to 1.006, and is now bottled.
It's quite a dark brew, and I can see the top inch of the bottles starting to clear during secondary.

I'll leave it about 8weeks before trying (if I can wait that long) :-)

 

[guyb]

Well I thought I'd post an update on this beer, as I'd had high hopes for it, and I thought the bitterness had killed it.

I bottled it on 23/06 and tried it again tonight just out of curiosity - lordy lord what do you know! The bitterness has dropped out quite considerably, to the point where it's quite drinkable (I'd say at least another 2weeks before I'll try it again).

I gave half a pint to the neighbour and he said it's very drinkable, and tasted a bit like John Smith's Original, or perhaps Stones's from a few years back.

All in all I was quite chuffed that the bitterness had dropped out. Perhaps it will turn out afterall! :

 

[evanvine]

All in all I was quite chuffed that the bitterness had dropped out. Perhaps it will turn out afterall!

I find 8 wks is the magic milestone!

 

[graysalchemy]

Leave as long as you can. i have a few odd bottles from six months ago and I wish I had a whole batch of it. That is my plan to brew enough so that it is left for 3-4 months before drinking.

 

[guyb]

Leave as long as you can. i have a few odd bottles from six months ago and I wish I had a whole batch of it. That is my plan to brew enough so that it is left for 3-4 months before drinking.

Interestingly enough, and not entirely off topic, I've been diagnosed with an auto immune disease and the treatment means that I have to be "dry" for about 8weeks (in about 6weeks), and then have about 4~5 units of alcohol a week for 24months. What an utter barstool!

Looks like I'll be mullered for the next 6 weeks! :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink:

Looks like my beer will get the chance to condition after all too! - however I seem to have a whole new clutch of friends kindly offering to relieve me of my beer :lol:

 

[hopin mad]

We all make mistakes from time to time, see the brew through to the end, after its conditioned try it and then judge your beer, it will probably turn out very well.
some times things go the other way (twice in 20 years) and you dont know exactly what went wrong or why.