Adding the dregs of Old Rosie to cider?

[Jimmy321]

I've tried and failed to culture yeast from Old Rosie so I'm thinking 'should I just add the dregs to my next batch and leave it for 6-12 months?'

Do you think it will work for malolactic fermentation?

 

[graysalchemy]

I believe it does work Calum Scott has used that method and has saved the yeast from it to re use. :thumb:

 

[Jimmy321]

Excellent, do you think I should leave it in the primary for the full 6-12 months?

 

[graysalchemy]

Mine usually gets transferred into a clean Fv and left for 6-8 months before bottling. It is then left again for 3-4 months before drinking. :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

I believe it does work Calum Scott has used that method and has saved the yeast from it to re use. :thumb:

Aye! Although it wasn't directly from an O.R. The original culture came from you... but the yeast pegged out in transport. So I had plenty MLF going on but no alcoholic fermentation. Pitched a couple of packets of Youngs champagne yeast and ended up with proper scrumpy.

I then dropped another batch of apple juice onto the salvaged yeast to make a raspberry cider and that too worked great.

I also sent some off to "narmour" who has had some pretty impressive results with it and has, I believe, sent it further on its way!

I would recommend doing the apple juice and yeast, fermenting until activity starts to tail off and pitch the O.R. then. You don't need much to get it going, just lots of time. :thumb:

 

[MartinsCider]

The yeast in Old Rosie has been killed off to give it a fake haze. You can't use it for yeast culture. A proper scrumpy haze is pectin, not yeast.

Martin

 

[LeithR]

I have successfully used Calum's "How To" culture a Weston's Old Rosie and am still using 4th and in one case a 5th generation of that culture. I haven't been keeping it for as long as a year but that has more to do with not having enough of it available to last a year, its good!!

Also, I have used this yeast to brew both John Bull kits and Tesco's juice ciders.

 

[graysalchemy]

The yeast in Old Rosie has been killed off to give it a fake haze. You can't use it for yeast culture. A proper scrumpy haze is pectin, not yeast.

Martin

Sorry I have to disagree with you there bottles of old rosie have not been pastuerised.


HAve you ever tried culturing up Old Rosie yeats or are you making presumptions. :whistle:

I have been making cider from Old rosie yeast for a number of years now and not only is the yeast viable but also the Lactobacillus as well.

Westons Still Scrumpy cider has been pasteurized and you will get no joy out of a bottle of that but OR is alive and kicking.

 

[MartinsCider]

Ah, I admit I didn't think about the bottled stuff; I was thinking about the bag-in-box version.
This was a subject that came up on a group called the Cider Workshop where there are many people in the cider-making trade, a least one of whom used to work for Westons (as did one of the customers in one of the pubs I sell my cider to). I was from these people that I got the information.
For a lot of home cider-makers the yeasts used by the commercial boys are not necessarily the best. Many home cider makers use eating apples which are high in malic acid and so something like Lalvin 71B or Gervin #9 are more suitable because they reduce the acidity levels by 25-30% (anf I have tested this).
Cheers,
Martin

 

[graysalchemy]

It was by accident that I came across the old rosie yeast. I had a bottle and cultured it up, I was planning on doing the MLF thing but was assuming that it would happen naturally if Malic acid was added. As it turns out it was the bacteria in the Old rosie dregs which did the job.

 

[MartinsCider]

MLF is an interesting topic and the discussion of it is worthy of a separate thread but there a a couple of points that I would like to make here since the topic has come up.

Firstly, the MLF bacteria come in a multitude of varieties in the natural environment and all give off their own by-products. From bitter experience, I never, ever want to have a natural MLF occur in my cider again because the resulting aroma and flavour was, err, "contentious". I'm proud to make "real" cider but when customers start complaining about the last 100-gallon batch, I understand why the big boys *never* use a natural MLF. If they do use MLF then they'll buy in a particular strain of bacteria (I was offered a bag of it by Thatchers last September but declined it). I would recommend the route of using the correct strain of yeast to reduce malic acid levels if a reduction of acidity is required. It is far more reliable.

Secondly, you can't simply feed MLF bacteria by adding malic acid. Certainly it is "food" but there is a problem in that MLF bacteria don't like low pH levels (as found in eating apples - often in the 2.8-3.1 area). Malic acid is a strong acid and so, by adding more without knowing the starting pH level, there is the danger that you'll just kill the bacteria that your trying to feed, in the same way that oxygen is necessary for a person to live but pure oxygen will kill them (so I'm told; I have never tried that one - honest 'Guv).

Cheers,

Martin

 

[graysalchemy]

Interesting Martin.

Though most of us have found that using Old rosie yeast/dregs and 1 tsp of malic you certainly get a cider with a good farmyard twang.

 

[Crastney]

I have a FV on the go at present which has undergone MLF without me adding anything special to it, and it tastes wonderful.

 

[graysalchemy]

That looks like MLF to me. :party:

 

[Crastney]

to be fair, the FV was only filled up to somwhere between the 5 gal mark and the bottom of the shoulder, and this was apples from the local pub garden, and 4 litres of Lidl apple juice, and I forgot to take any notes at all, so don't know if I added yeast or not, but I probably did add champagne yeast as that's what I normally do. Fermentation would have finished in November probably.

my plan is to bottle about half of it, and then add the rest on top of 5lb of elderberries, for further fermentation, in three DJs.

 

[MartinsCider]

I have a FV on the go at present which has undergone MLF without me adding anything special to it, and it tastes wonderful.

I beg to differ.... that looks like a film yeast to me. This is quite common on the top of cider and grows there where it is in contact with air. It contributes nothing to the taste, neither positive nor negative.
Martin.