Best Lager Kits

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mutznutz

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Right lads,

I'm looking for a new Lager/Pilsner Kit to try next, so I would love people's advice... Or Top 3 Kits

Still trying kits til I start getting them.... Refined!

To help you lot gauge my taste, I currently drink Birra Moretti, Tiger, Peroni, Estrella Damm, Carlsberg Export and... Carling (I know this ain't to most people's taste but it's what I grew up with)

Thanks in advance
 
What sugar quantities? Times frames are best?
I like the Coopers Eurpean Larger, in fact I've just bottled my batch.

In answer to your question:
I use 1kg of coopers brew enhacer 2 however in the past I've used used 500g of dry malt and 250g of dextrose. The fermentation normally takes about 7 days and the secondary takes the same however coopers recommend you let it condition for 12 weeks. The first couple of times I've brewed this kit I drank it sooner than 12 weeks and it was good but recently I have left it to condition for the full 12 weeks and it has been well worth the wait!
 
This^^. You can actually use the m84 at ale temps even though its a lager yeast but If you want to use a lager yeast got for something clean like US-05 or notty
With the m84 yeast, what temps and times would be good?

I'm currently running a temp controlled fridge/box (fridge components dont work),
but lowest constant temp is 20c or is that gonna be a problem??
 
1.festival new Zealand pilsner best larger I've done by a mile
2.coopers Canadian blonde as per instruction with brew enhancer 2 I think
3.wilko cerveza with 500g lme and 500g dextrose.

I also had a fermenter fridge that packed up and used to freeze 2 litre bottles of water and change them daily which worked really well until I got another fridge
 
I would have said Coopers European, however:
- it uses a true lager yeast so this is the worst time of year to do it, as a brewing temp around 12/13C is best
- I had to do an emergency lager brew when I ran out this time of year a few summers ago, and did a Coopers Australian - reckon it tasted better than the European.

Whichever you do, add in some lager hops, Hallertau or Saaz: boil a pan of water, let it cool for 10min, then steep 30g of hops for 30mins. Strain and use the liquid to help make up the kit. Then add a further 20g of hops into the FV on day 6 or 7 of fermentation, when the initial burst of activity has died down.
 
With the m84 yeast, what temps and times would be good?

I'm currently running a temp controlled fridge/box (fridge components dont work),
but lowest constant temp is 20c or is that gonna be a problem??

If you lowest temp is 20C, although you can use lager yeast at ale temps (something I've only ever read about and something I've yet to try), I'd probably go for either a clean ale yeast or mangrove jacks californian lager yeast. It's a lager yeast that is fermented at ale temps so would be well suited to what your making. Forumites have reported good results with it. Clean and crisp like you'd want a lager
 
Tom Caxton "Pilsner Strong Larger". Disregard the kit instructions and toss the yeast out.

Pick a larger yeast, I used Saflarger S23. Take two sachets and pitch at 15°C. Try to keep it between 15 and 18°C for two weeks or until it attenuates .Then leave it at room temp for a week in the primary. Rack to secondary to bulk age or bottle and larger the beers for one to two months in a cold place.

I used S23 in my Cali Common too and fermented it between 18 and 20°c and the fruit esters were minimal. As the beer aged it dried out nicely too.
 
Tom Caxton "Pilsner Strong Larger". Disregard the kit instructions and toss the yeast out.

Pick a larger yeast, I used Saflarger S23. Take two sachets and pitch at 15°C. Try to keep it between 15 and 18°C for two weeks or until it attenuates .Then leave it at room temp for a week in the primary. Rack to secondary to bulk age or bottle and larger the beers for one to two months in a cold place.

I used S23 in my Cali Common too and fermented it between 18 and 20°c and the fruit esters were minimal. As the beer aged it dried out nicely too.

There you go then. Some who actually has fermented a lager yeast at ale temps, to prove that's it's do able.

@Grizzly did you notice any particular difference between using a lager yeast at ale temps and using a clean ale strain for a lager?
 
There you go then. Some who actually has fermented a lager yeast at ale temps, to prove that's it's do able.

@Grizzly did you notice any particular difference between using a lager yeast at ale temps and using a clean ale strain for a lager?


In truth I'm not a major larger brewer and I've not tried one with an ale yeast, appart from my very early kit attempts.But with those I followed instructions and didn't ferment low and cold store for any length of time.


I've just used US-05 in my recent porter and keeping that at 16-18°C and I must say that it is very clean.The last taste(after it reached FG) revealed that the beer is malt forward with a nice mild hoppy finish.No fruity esters. They may reveal themselves after some maturation, who knows.

As for using an ale yeast for larger and cold storing etc I can't comment really. But I would imagine US-05 would make a clean larger from what I've tasted so far.I have read that people have enjoyed success with it.


The California Common turned out a lot like Anchor Steam or a less fruity but more roasty Old Speckled Hen. A little harsher hop character and a little more dry. But the malt flavour profile was spot on. I would 100% use the yeast again, but I would probably mash 2° higher to get a little more sweetness.
 
In truth I'm not a major larger brewer and I've not tried one with an ale yeast, appart from my very early kit attempts.But with those I followed instructions and didn't ferment low and cold store for any length of time.


I've just used US-05 in my recent porter and keeping that at 16-18°C and I must say that it is very clean.The last taste(after it reached FG) the beer is malt forward with a nice mild hoppy finish.No fruity esters. They may reveal themselves after some maturation, who knows.

As for using an ale yeast for larger and cold storing etc I can't comment really. But I would imagine US-05 would make a clean larger from what I've tasted so far.I have read that people have enjoyed success with it.


The California Common turned out a lot like Anchor Steam or a less fruity but more roasty Old Speckled Hen. A little harsher hop character and a little more dry. But the malt flavour profile was spot on. I would 100% use the yeast again, but I would probably mash 2° higher to get a little more sweetness.

The last porter I made I used WLP001 (similar to US-05) fermented at 20C and it was very clean too.
 
The last porter I made I used WLP001 (similar to US-05) fermented at 20C and it was very clean too.

I was tempted by the Californian Yeasts for the Common that I made, but after reading the history of steam beer I wanted to try and replicate an 1800's recipe rather than the more modern takes.

As many of the brewers in America during the gold rush were likely of German descent, it is likely that they had German yeast strains at their disposal.

Strains which may have eventually mutated into the modern California strains after being repeatedly used at high temps.
 
With most kits you use tap water, when making from grain you boil or at least take things to a high temperature likely to kill any bugs. So with a kit you need alcohol fast, then that alcohol kills the bugs. Kits do vary in temperature, but this is from a Coopers kit.

Important: If the wort is not at ideal temperature but within the range of 18°C-32°C (64°F-90°F) add the yeast. At this point the wort is vulnerable and prompt addition of yeast is more important than ideal temperature.

So with a kit you are aiming for a light beer taste rather than a true lager. It would be nice if you could read a review and work out which kit is the best. However when you read reviews 95% of them start with "I replaced the sugar with brew enhancer/sprayed malt/honey" or some other move away from the instructions. Nothing wrong with altering the kit, but it means the report is next to useless.

I have also found temperature changes what is a good kit to a poor kit and most people who are still using kits, either enhance them or have no temperature control. Myself included. So if I look at a kit I did two years ago it was done with simple sugar, but temperature could be anywhere. And look at kits done this year, only one with simple sugar and that was not lager.

So the only reason to look at yeast in early stages is when you can't maintain the temperature required for the yeast supplied. But the yeast does change the taste, so kit manufacturers match the wort to yeast supplied. So if you can maintain 20°C go for an English kit, but if the temperature is likely to reach 25°C then go for an Australian kit where they seem to include yeasts that need a higher temperature.

I tried brewing in an old fridge/freezer without using the motor, in the main because I had bought wrong temperature controller which would control heat or cool rather than heat and cool. Once the first 10 days are over the insulated box is good, and a simple heater will maintain temperature, it is rare for the ambient to rise to a point where it gets too hot. However in those first 10 days the heat from the fermentation means the ambient needs to be below 16°C to maintain 20°C in the fermentor in the fridge compartment. Even then you need to start at no more than 18°C which is just on the limit for yeast to start. Better if ambient is less than 14°C. OK today 11th August 0:02 am outside is 12°C, but it is likely tomorrow will get hotter so you need to start brew with fridge door open and pray for first 5 days at least to be cool.

I also made a mistake measuring the fermentor temperature, I used a stick on strip, it had 16,18,20,22,24 etc marked, but it measured somewhere between fermentor temperature and ambient temperature because it was exposed to the air, when I started to use a temperature controller I found with a sensor under a sponge so insulated from air temperature and only measuring fermentor temperature the temperatures of the strip and controller did not match. The difference between to two varied first 5 days the sensor was recording up to 3°C higher than the temperature strip, but as time went on the temperatures became closer. The bigger the difference between ambient and fermentor temperature the more out the strip is, so when my strip measured 26°C likely the fermentor was really at 30°C no wonder my early brews in summer were poor.

What I did was start mid September when forecast was cold for 5 days, and last brew started end of May weather permitting. I would use two fermentors so 40 pints every 10 days and I would try to build up a stock. But last March I was ill, so the brewing stopped, as a result I ran short on stock, so bought a STC-1000 and started using the freezer to brew in. So this year is first year I have brewed in the summer.

Having a stock of beer in the shed does however have an advantage, it is all well conditioned before drinking.

My lager attempt was with Geordie kits, I did two as lager taste, one at 20°C the other with lager yeast at 12°C the latter was a total failure, it was too long in the fermentor before any alcohol was produced and it was the only one of my beers to get spoilt by wild yeast or other unwanted bugs. Unless you boil all water before using do not try to lager a kit, learn from my error. The 20°C kit was not too bad, but lager is not my thing. I used other lager kits instead of sugar in some of my brews, and they were very good, Morrisons sold off their beer kits cheap and only had lager kits left, so I bought a few at £6.50 each which was about the same as buying dried malt.
 
I'm down with the Festival NZ Pilsner kits. Shove the full amount of dry hops in for 4 or 5 days then leave in the bottle for at least a couple of months: hoptastic, and they keep getting better if you're patient.
 

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