Cider - add yeast or not?

[JimRay]

I'm planning to press a large quantity of apples tomorrow - we're making cider.

Does anyone have experience making cider in this way?

My issue is whether to add yeast or not. The apples are spray free so have wild yeast aplenty. However, I've heard that not adding yeast then leaving the lid off for a few days to start fermentation can be hit and miss. (And how do you keep the flies out of an open barrel?).

On the other hand, adding campden tablets to kill the wild yeast and then adding an ale yeast seems a bit daft.

I'd like to make good ol' scrumpy. However, I don't want 100 litres of cider vinegar!

And help, advice or similar experiences please!

 

[pittsy]

brewing is all about the yeast , so to get the right type of cider in this case will want the right kind of yeast such as you could use wine yeast(standard clear cider) sparkling wine yeast but in this case you should use cider yeast to get a scrumpy style ,also a member called Graysacademy is your man to ask he seems to know all there is about cider , you need certain types of apples and also you need to add certain products too like acids etc drop him a pm he'll put you right :thumb:

 

[alphacento]

If they are freshly picked apples from an orchard than you can do without the yeast. If the apples are the right mix than you would not need to add anything but just let it ferment.

Off course by using wild yeast there is always a chance that it will not function properly. I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to brewing so if you will invest a lot of time in mashing and pressing apples, I would suggest to kill off the wild yeasts and use cider yeast in order to be avoid even slight possibility of it not working 100%. But that's just me, even with wild yeast there is a high chance that it will turn out amazing.

What types of apples are you using?

 

[graysalchemy]

Firstly welcome to the forum.

I would be inclined to agree with the above. Yes there will be wild yeast but what wild yeast? I would treat with campden tablets and then use a cider yeast.

However making good cider is not just about juicing apples bunging in some yeast. firstly what type of apples have you got? Are they a cider variety or are they desert apples? Even if you have cider varieties you want a mix of sweet, sharps, bitter sharp and bitter sweets, to get the right amount of tannin and malic acid. Tannin and malic acid are the key to cider making. If you apples are desert varieties then you will certainly need to add malic acid and tannin, 1 tsp of each per gallon. If they are normal everyday apples you will need a mix of dessert and cooking apples to get a better mix.

Finally the last thing you need is time, a good few months of maturation in bulk under airlock before bottling to encourage malolactic fermentation.

If you don't consider tannin and acid levals and don't use a cider yeast you may well end up very disappointed especially if you drink it young.

Hope that doesn't put you off. Best of luck and let is know how you went on

 

[evanvine]

Traditionally made cider doesn't use yeast or campden tablets!
Neither does wine.

 

[graysalchemy]

That is true

 

[JimRay]

Thanks for your replies, Gents.

Not sure of the apple types. Begged and borrowed from various sources so we have a mix. None are cider apples though. None have been sprayed and all have this beautiful looking yeast on their skins.

I should add we managed to do this with great success two years ago. The cider was light and tasty but not overly alcholic (maybe 4%).

This time we're doubling the quantity (hopefully 100 litres) and aren't sure if we rode our luck last time! And I prefer a stronger drop.

Will definitely report back at some stage. I feel quite strongly that I should keep it as natural as possible. But might be selling cider vinegar by Xmas.

 

[alphacento]

Not sure of the apple types. Begged and borrowed from various sources so we have a mix. None are cider apples though.

If they are not cider apples than you should follow graysalchemy instructions.

If possible you could split the cider into two and do half with wild yeasts and half with cider yeasts.

 

[muddy90]

I'd go with the 'split it' advice if you're fixed on going natural.
We did this in August last year with our first 2 batches. 1 with campden & yeast & 1 with absolutely nothing.
Both turned out fine thankfully although the natural has slightly less flavour.
We got the 'mix' wrong on our 3rd batch & had way too many cookers & that one turned out quite sour :rofl: I salvaged it by killing off the yeast with ferment stopper & adding sugar. It's now my fave, it's also the strongest @ 7.5% :drink:

 

[chrisp]

We made up a very large quantity of cider in 2010 as per this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArAfJpSVXo0

Relied on the natural wild yeast and fermented on 45 gallon oak barrels (6 of them!!)

All fermented out nicely with very little temperature control, probably due to the bulk of the fluid

Still drinking it now and it is mellowing with age :

Go on make cider the cider way!!

Chrisp

 

[evanvine]

Still drinking it now and it is mellowing with age

Oh so true, but we don't all have the patience!